Mica: [00:00:00] Welcome to the 71st episode of the Savory Shot. A podcast about the art and soul of working in food photography. I'm your host with the most Mica McCook. I'm a food photographer based out of Austin, Texas. And before we start this show, I gotta take a breath and, and just say thanks to y'all, the listeners.
Y'all are amazing. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for listening and for being awesome. You guys are amazing and I can't thank you enough for being here. And if this is your first time tuning in, welcome, welcome to the Hot Mess Express. Today's episode is special. [00:01:00] For two reasons. The first reason is that for the first time in Savory Shot history, we have not one but two guests on the show.
The second reason why this episode is special is because we have two international guests. We haven't had an international guest in a hot minute. I believe Jeff was our last international guest that we had on the show. So that's exciting. So first guest of the year, first international guest of the year, two people at the same time.
Man, this episode is gonna be so, so amazing for that reason and a bazillion other reasons. So without further ado. Allow me to introduce our [00:02:00] guests. Meet Rani and Uduak from 1117 Collective. They are a food and lifestyle photography dynamic duo based out in Lagos, Nigeria. Rani and Uduak believe in creating photography that evokes an emotional response and draws the viewers in.
They've worked with brands like Coca-Cola, Baileys, Krispy Kreme Donuts, and so much more. In this episode, we talk about their transition from restaurant photography to commercial studios. We talk about the challenges they faced convincing restaurants to invest in quality photography, and we talked about the underrepresentation and lack of visual celebration of Nigerian and African cuisine [00:03:00] in the culinary world. It was a great episode, y'all. I'm so excited for you to hear it. But before we get into all that, grab a drink, grab a pen, and let's start the show.
Welcome to the Savory Shot, a biweekly show about the art and soul of working in food photography. I'm your host, Mica McCook.
Every other Wednesday I sit down to chat with professionals in the industry so that you feast on only the best tips and strategies in the business. Alright? All right, y'all, let's get started.
Just wanna say thank you guys for coming on the show, for spending your evening with me. Welcome, Uduak and Rani. You guys are so cool. I've enjoyed talking to y'all for, oh my gosh, we've been talking [00:04:00] for like an hour and I could talk forever with you guys, but I just wanna say thank you so much for being on the show.
Uduak: Thank you for having us. Happy to be here.
Mica: Yes, y'all, guests. We've been trying to make this happen for the last few months. You know, I had to cancel at the last minute and then, you know, they're busy and working and so trying to find a date and time that we were both available was like a challenge, but I'm so glad that we found the time and we made it work.
I wanna start this interview off by asking how did the two of you first decide to like build something together? How did 1 1 7 Collective come together?
Rani: Yeah, so. It's uh, well, 1117 Collective right? That's the name of our business. So essentially it's named after the day that we met. So that was 1st of January, 2017, because just [00:05:00] backstory before that, I was doing photography for a few years before we met.
Then I had this friend who opened the restaurants or was about to open restaurants, and he kept on telling me, "Oh dude, when I open the restaurants, you're gonna take the pictures, you're gonna take the pictures." And it's like, "Okay, sure man, call me whenever." Finally call me. And I just don't really feel comfortable taking food pictures.
But I didn't want to let him down and I also needed the money. So from like going out with her all the time, she'd always be so interested in taking pictures of food on her phone. She had the camera. So I was like, "Hey, why don't you just go to this place with me and help me take pictures of the food, right."
And I'll pay you. So she was like, okay. I mean at first she was reluctant like, would I mess it up? And I'm like, "No. Like you already know how to take pictures. I'll set up up all the [00:06:00] lights and everything. You just come with your camera and take whatever you think looks nice." So she came and she took pictures and they were nice and I was taking as well.
So like we were both taking pictures and we had the footage and it was a few weeks later, I think they called us for another restaurant that also had rights. A family owned restaurants. I think it was Japanese food and they also had classic American type of stuff as well.
Pizza, burgers, all those kind of things. So they called us again to take pictures for that restaurant. So it's like, "Oh, who am I gonna call to call me me? Why don't I call her again?" So we did that gig and I think she was having too much fun with it and she was like, "Oh let's maybe make a portfolio or make a business outta this thing."
Because surely there are like other restaurants that need food pictures done, right. Like new restaurants.
Uduak: So lemme come in, actually. At that time it wasn't even necessarily new restaurants [00:07:00] because. At that time, restaurants in like Lagos or Nigeria, not like were not taking their Instagram seriously.
Right. Or their online presence, like in any form. And so even if they would have an Instagram page, you'll see like a pixelated menu on it. And I used to go out like to eat a lot 'cause we like food, obviously that's why we're here. But I wouldn't be able to get like a feel of the restaurants or their offerings or what their food is like before I go.
And so after I did that gig with him, I was like, hmm, there are so many restaurants that need good food pictures. And obviously like between the first time and the second time he, when he was calling me the second time, so the first time I was like, I had no idea what I was in for. Mm-hmm. But between that, I was now obviously like checking resources online and trying to find out more about like food photography and like feeling like, okay, I think I kind of just like need learn it..
And so I was like, oh, why don't we make a business out of this?
because
We could get a portfolio together, we could practice [00:08:00] more, learn more about food photography and create portfolio and just literally physically go to these different restaurants day in, day out and pitch to them. We could even print out the portfolio nicely so they could see the pictures or we could take on an iPad and we just put together like a little price menu that, okay, do you wanna take pictures of your entire menu that has this many dishes?
This is how much, if you have pictures already, but just wondering, we have new additions to your menu and so we could just make money from this clearly, because there are not alot of people doing this. So this was before like the content creation era, or I think it's before it was like a big thing and reels and all that.
Maybe at that point in time in Lagos, there was only one other food photographer. I mean, other people would take one or.
Rani: Maybe like two or three others.
Uduak: Yeah, or like some that would take pictures of food. They were not necessarily like food photographers, they were just photographers who would take pictures of food.
So I was like, there's not like a lot of competition here, I think. And so we could just. Just
Rani: Do it.
Uduak: Yeah. We could like make it professional. We could package it nicely. We could [00:09:00] make ourselves a PDF. Let's set up a website. I like projects, so when it's time to like set up something, I'm always eager. Let's do this, let's do this section.
Our business cards, let's do this. Gonna continue. Yeah, I think that's it.
Rani: I think that was it. Pretty much. So like we ended up doing restaurant photography for like a good number of years. Then after that, because like for me, I liked having a good website that was easily searchable. 'Cause like I had a portrait business and like I would get a lot of customers just from people typing on Google.
'Cause I can't compete with like the person that has 10 or 20,000 followers on Instagram. Forget about that. I'm not trying to build 10 or 20,000 followership on Instagram overnight. Like it's gonna take forever, right? But the way I can beat those guys is like if I have a website that's well put together, it's easily findable on Google, right?
'Cause I feel like if you're typing on Google [00:10:00] "family photographer near me", you are actually serious about looking for a family photographer near you, right? Whereas on Instagram, I might find you and I might like your portfolio and I might save this for later when I think about doing like birthday pictures or whatever, right?
So I said, okay, let's have a good website. And funny enough, like off just having a good website that was well maintained. One of the brand managers from like Baileys in Nigeria reached out to us and they were like, oh, we really like the work.
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Can we give you a job to do?
Uduak: Go ahead.
Yeah, so like even before that you were already saying that at that point we had been doing restaurant for a while and we had been doing our portfolio work and like doing a lot of learnings. So there was a point that you had said that we should try to go into that commercial work and like approach brands and stuff.
But I [00:11:00] thought that we were not ready yet. Right. I was like, no, that's like the big league. I don't think we're there yet.
Mica: Why didn't you think you were ready?
Rani: No, I think for her it was like imposter syndrome and that's like something that you deal with as a creative. I think even me at points in time, I think a point in time that was like something that I had initially.
I think like every photographer that I know has had imposter syndrome in some way or another at some points in time.
Uduak: Because most people who start out photography.
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: Start out as a hobby.
Rani: Cause like you start out as a hobby and it's like.
Uduak: So the idea that people are like trying to pay you.
Rani: Like people are actually trying to, to
Uduak: Do this is like.
Rani: Then like maybe, have you ever had that dream in middle of the night where it's like somebody wakes you up and it's like, what do you do for a living?
And it's like, oh, I'm a professional photographer. And that just sounds so weird to say that like [00:12:00] I'm a professional photographer. Like, how the fuck did I get here, man?
Mica: Yeah. That's scary.
Uduak: Yeah,
Mica: And like Uduak said. It's scary when there's money involved because there's that risk. Because the thing about like commercial is that you are guaranteeing that you can deliver this exact photo that they're looking for.
Uduak: Yes.
Mica: And when it's a hobby, it's just like there's no pressure, there's no expectations.
Uduak: Yeah.
Mica: You're just growing, you're learning. And so there's the freedom to like make mistakes, but when they're coming to you and wanting to pay you money, it changes.
Uduak: Yeah.
Mica: It's like you're the professional now. It's like, ah.
I mean, was that it for you? Because that's what the scare was for me.
Uduak: So like most of the restaurants here are like small businesses, right? Not like a lot of like big chains. So when they're now going to the commercial and like some of these commercial clients were like, like this one was like a multinational, right?
Yeah.
Rani: That was Guinness.
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: Nigeria.
Uduak: And so obviously like it has to meet like guidelines [00:13:00] and so many things like that. So like before then I was like, we're not ready. But then we interview, seek out the commercial clients. Initially they came to us. So I was like, okay, I think we're ready now. If they say we're ready, then we're ready.
Rani: Then like you end up going to the office and Yeah, I know, right? I mean, like, even then it was an interesting experience. 'cause like you go to the office and you're so corporate and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and you know, oh yeah, you have to fill in these forms, but don't worry about the paperwork. You'll just do the job through our agency guys so they can pay you and you don't have to fill in all these forms.
Uh, how much do you charge again? Then we're like, oh crap. We didn't even tell them how much we charge, dude. Then it's like, just send you an email. You know, no one say something and like, you'll forget about it. Like, we'll just send it to you in an email. They're like, oh, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. No problem.
This is what we need for now anyway, for the shoots, and we need like this set of [00:14:00] images. This is the branch, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And like even then, like we didn't even freaking know that. For bottles and beverages. Right. To get like the chills effects, just use fricking glycerin on the bottle barrel.
So like we were trying to frick make sure that it's like a fridge and the fridge is really cold so that when you bring it out it's like content. Like there's condensation, no, like crap.
Uduak: No, that's when we were preparing for the shoot. You see?
Rani: Yeah, no, even on the shoot we didn't use glycerin, man or like, you know, we didn't use glycerin. We we're bringing them out from the fridge man and it's just like, wow.
So amateur. But like the, the stuff turned out great. It's just like, because you're using like real condensation. The stickers needed a lot of editing and Photoshop and that was my headache to deal with then. But like client was happy. We were then like, I think from there the next year we had [00:15:00] like a second
commercial gig. I mean like we were still mainly focused on restaurants, but then I think we're like a bit more proactive. 'cause it was like, okay, let's also go for like fast food restaurants as well. I think what the problem at that point in time was everybody was like realizing and like valuing social media.
But I think like when it comes to paying for a service in this part of the world, people tend to be a bit cheap with it. I'll tell the truth. So it's like, yeah, like nobody wants to spend money man. And it's like marketing, you have to spend money or it would just be like, oh, you have the meeting, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And like, you know, the way we worked with restaurants at least is. Everything was price listed and like you find there are a lot of people that don't necessarily have like the budget for what it is that you're doing. And even then, [00:16:00] like if you looked, we were looking at our price lists from then, like we weren't even charging that much.
Like if you really think about it, you know, um, but it's, it's is what's this? So we're like, okay, if we want to get paid more, maybe go for like fast food restaurants, right? And so we started like going on LinkedIn and reaching out to them. I mean she kind of bullied me to be the guy to do the reach out to
Uduak: 'Cause, he said he is extroverted. So I'm like extroverted skills to get some kind.
Rani: So like, essentially what I would just do is like go on LinkedIn and be like, hey, with like the long copy paste message and just change the name and the company name inside and just hope to get a response. Then like from there, sometimes you would.
Identify because like there're not that many fast food restaurants that have capacity and have the needs. So like you, it was like a small list to pick from. Right. And it [00:17:00] would be like, okay, these guys probably don't need us because they have their shit together. Okay, these guys need us because they don't.
Mm-hmm. Right. So they definitely need us. So like reach out, so like try and find the marketing manager or whatever on LinkedIn. And if you can't find that, at least look for the human resource guy and hope they respond and they're cooperative. Because I think there's this thing where it's like they people can be weird.
It's like, dude, I want to give you a proposal that's gonna help your business move forward. You literally lose nothing by telling me the name of this person. Right. Just tell me their name. So I can make the letter to them a bit more personal than just saying to the marketing manager and it looks spammy.
Right? Hey, like to Henry, you know, like Henry would like to, he would be more inclined to like read it because like I went through that effort to know, okay, his name is Henry, right? So like I just need his name, don't gimme his email address or not just his [00:18:00] name. And I'll send a physical letter to the office, goddammit.
Okay. So they withhold the information. So I mean, eventually we got like a fast food clients and bro, it was like the most soul-sucking work. Now we are done. Because I think they made us have like four or five, maybe even six meetings before they were like, okay, you can, let's do a shoot now. Because like meeting one was us introducing ourselves to them, telling them about what we do and they're like, oh, okay, cool, cool, cool.
That we actually need you. Because like if you looked at their pictures before us, what I think somebody did is like maybe a product photographer or somebody wrote a proposal to them and literally had a white backdrop and red and white napkin and told them, put like everything white plates [00:19:00] and just like in the most boring way like you can possibly think of like taking pictures of food.
Oh, just put the rice there. Chicken. And like literally the damn red napkin. And like the most basic chopping board was like always in those shots. And I'm like, gee, like how can you guys confidently use this kind of imagery like. What the hell man? So, you know, we had like six meetings,
Mica: So you know, you could do other things, right?
Rani: The last meeting, the problem was the price. They're like, oh, we need to bring the price down. And like they're trying to do the good cop, bad cop thing and they know that it's like her. That's the reason why like, we're not agreeing on doing the job. In fact, I think there was like a meeting before that where were like, oh no, we can't work with you.
Like we're not bluffing. We can't work with you. And they were like, no, come back again. [00:20:00] Like, we can work, you know, we'll give you work every month. Like just take this price. And you know, at a point in time I was like, I think we should just do it. But just do it. And like over time, like gradually increase the price on them.
So like they don't realize what's happening.
Mica: It never works.
Rani: I think I just kept on saying it, oh, let's just do it. We need it in the portfolio. Let's just do it. Let's just do it. And she was like, oh, just every time we'll be taking all our prices so we can have something in the portfolio. And what's the point in like doing this If you have a portfolio, ideal client doesn't even want pay you what you deserve.
And I'm like, dude, just do it and let's have it in the portfolio, man. Like,
Mica: She is right. She is right. I agree. I agree a hundred percent.
Rani: In fact, I, I think like with that, that gig, like we did it, then we did another gig for like that same client and they wanted video this [00:21:00] time around and it was like, Ooh, video.
Nice. So I. Oh my God.
Mica: It's, it's so hard to that that line. It's like, I really do wanna work with you.
Rani: Yeah.
Mica: But not for that amount. And it's like you don't wanna lose them, but you also know that if you take it for the rate that they're saying to take it for, that you're gonna enter into this job with some form of resentment.
'Cause it's like, you know that you're not getting paid what you should be getting paid.
And so like the hardest and risk risky thing you can do is to stand on business and say,
I'm confident enough in my skills that. I'm not gonna do it for this much. You can go find the other photographer and hire them for the rate that you want and you'll be coming back to me because you're not gonna be happy with what you're getting.
Rani: I agree.
Mica: Like I wish I had the guts to do that at the very beginning because I was like, you, Rani, I was just taking whatever and just adding it to the portfolio [00:22:00] thinking that I can increase my rates.
Rani: Yeah.
Mica: And it took a long time before I learned that the ones that you got for the cheap rate, they're gonna stay cheap.
So when you were starting with restaurants, I remember you said that there were like two or three other food photographers and most of the restaurants in that area didn't prioritize their marketing and their photos. What convincing did it take for them to look at what you guys were doing and go, okay, yeah, maybe we should hire a food photographer.
Was it difficult to convince them or did they see that other restaurant and go, oh, I like what they're doing. Do that for me.
Rani: So I think like the reason be the way the restaurant scene works around here is like you have casual dining, right? I would probably say you have it in different tiers. So maybe in like Lagos, where we live, which is the most cosmopolitan city in Nigeria, right?
And probably like the [00:23:00] edgiest city. Yeah. It is the edgiest city. You have like parts of town that's a very like upscale, highbrow areas, right? So you have like these nice casual dining restaurants that do like mostly continental food. You have Nigerian food restaurants, but those are more like quick service restaurants, you know?
So like people usually order it as like takeaway food or maybe they might come and eat-in something quickly Nigerian, right? Those were not really our target audience at first. We were going after the more like. Casual dining restaurants. Right. And maybe like high-end restaurants as well. And maybe even hotel restaurants as well.
I think because you have like multinational hotels that are also here. So go ahead.
Uduak: And I think something else was that we would also sort of gauge the efforts that the restaurant has put into their aesthetics. Yes. Overall, right? By the time they have put efforts into how their building [00:24:00] looks, how their logo looks, what the staff wear, this is like an a continuation of that because clearly you care about like visual appeal, right?
So we try to focus on, those restaurants are already showing a bit of like effort in like visual appeal and figure, okay, this would be a good add-on for them. Right. And so obviously those ones are more within, and obviously like Instagram booming helped. Right? Because obviously they don't want to be left out of the conversation.
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: And more and more people are going out and like. So in Nigeria, right, eating out is honestly like a relatively new thing.
Rani: You saying our culture? Yeah.
Uduak: Yeah. It's in our culture most, it's still like most people, you eat your meals at home. Right. And it is still even in, I would say Lagos and maybe Abuja that in our culture as even.
Rani: It depends.
I probably would say that like is it relatively a new thing? I mean like going to casual dining restaurants. Okay. For [00:25:00] some people it's a luxury. For some people it's like a regular type of thing to go to this kind of restaurants. But I mean like even making your decision, if it's something that like you treat yourself to once a week or once a month or maybe like a special dates with like a girlfriend or boyfriend or even for yourself, right?
Or like girls high, whatever the location might be, right? You want to go somewhere that like you feel like you'd enjoy And how do you like carry out your research? It's either like somebody has been there or like you've been there, or maybe you want to try this new place out, right. Yeah, and I think like what taps into what she was saying, nstagram-friendliness was like a thing, that's … it was like a trend
Uduak: And I think people, they were noticing that people would go to restaurants and they would open Instagram and they would be like, I want this.
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: Sometimes they don't even know the name, they just point the picture. So obviously like they were realizing how important it is. Right. And they would see their [00:26:00] competitors who have.
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: Good content and they're getting traction and followers and whatever. Yeah. So I think again, it all comes down to like price, right? Yeah. So people are like, Hmm, it's too expensive.
Rani: Yeah. Some people, I mean, it is what it is. It is what it is. I think like maybe it doesn't always help. It depends where you live in the world, right?
'Cause you know, some cities are probably better suited for like this type of occupation because clearly there's like an abundance of supply, right? In terms of the number of restaurants or what have you, that would need people like us, right? But unfortunately, that's not always the case, right? So I think over here, I think maybe for like restaurant photography, we don't even do restaurant photography anymore.
Not that, not so much. Not so much. I, I've maybe like the last time was like. A while ago, I don't even remember when, but now I think that this scene has kind of changed again. [00:27:00] So maybe there are more people that focus on food photography, but at the same time, you've had like this rise of content creators.
So like restaurants would rather work with content creators who can come and create reels, right? It's TikTok that started this.
Uduak: Yeah, no, no point.
Rani: Because like people want like TikTok videos and, and like COVID as well maybe started that whole thing of like TikTok being the more favorite social media app opposed to Instagram and.
Uduak: The Instagram added on.
Rani: Then Instagram added reels. So like the algorithm now paper.
Mica: When you guys started moving more into the commercial side of things and these brands came to you and it's like, ready or not, we want you. How long did it take before or is that imposter syndrome still there? Like do you still feel those moments of, I don't think we're ready for this.
Rani: So I think like in terms of when we started [00:28:00] doing like commercial photography, right? Yeah. I think that was a bit of an imposter syndrome thing. Again, I think maybe another part of like our story is that it's quite funny how it happens. 'Cause like keep in mind up to a certain point we've been doing work for like mostly.
Casual dining restaurants that were doing like continental cuisine or just like general cuisine, right. Non Nigerian. So our portfolio was mostly stuff like burgers and salads and pastas and all these kind of things, right? But like there wasn't much Nigerian food there. And maybe it was because like even when we were doing our own portfolio work, we had all these exotic, beautiful things and like we're trying to do like experimentation with different things.
Like we would have the rustic vibe and we get all these props and, but like we just ignored Nigerian foods. Like keep it to the side man. Ain't [00:29:00] nobody trying to photograph this. There's no money here. Which is silly. And like I remember a friend who had like this online agency was telling me, oh, how come you don't have Nigerian food in your portfolio?
That like, that would stand out. Mm. Would it really?
Uduak: So yeah. Well we're thinking of restaurants that.
Rani: Well, yeah, we're thinking about restaurants mostly at the time. And I think for like, in terms of commercial, because keep in mind the first commercial job we did was for Baileys, right. Alcohol Brands. Then the second one we did was for like, uh, cereal brand as well.
So like we're thinking, oh, maybe soft drinks next or something. Like, we're thinking it's gonna be like food related. And I think Uduak had kind of reached out to a client, well the company that ended up being a client's, right? There was a corporate client that had reached out to, because she had somebody that knew somebody there.
And they were like, [00:30:00] eh, we don't really spend money on food photography, blah, blah, blah, but can you just do stock if you have stock images? We tend to buy those sometimes, but our ad agency buys the stock images. But the thing is, it's like we were just ahead of the time, right. Because I think it's like a thing with African foods in general, and I'll touch on this, not just Nigeria, like African foods generally from my observation, is not celebrated enough and it's a shame.
But like with this particular company we're talking about, like they ended up being one of our favorite clients to work with many years in the future. Because essentially there was like a key staff member there who was on like a more junior level than whoever she had spoken to at the time. And that person.
Started climbing the ranks because she's creative and she thinks out the box and all these kind of things. Right. And it's [00:31:00] like crazy because she used to work in an ad agency as her first job out of college. She worked there for like a year. They wanted that to continue. And she was like, oh no, I'm a superstar man.
You can't home me. Bye. You know? But they loved us so much. Uh, so like, I think her manager there like had called and said, oh, I've been seeing your stuff. You do pho photography rights. I have a brief for you if you can take it. I need like pictures for a branch that I'm working with. So like we went to the office and you know, we're like, oh, okay, nice, nice, nice.
We can do this. And like that was probably the biggest. Thing that we had been given to do at that point in time. 'cause it was like four day shoots and we needed like, I think at a certain point in time she started taking like a more food stylist role slash project manager role. And I was more of the creative guy and I would take the [00:32:00] pictures and I would edit and stuff and like think about the lighting and all those things.
She would be better in like the organizational and styling role because that's where she shines more, right? So, I mean sometimes we still, she would still take pictures 'cause she'd be like, yeah, I'm still better than you anyway. Like, I just don't choose not really carrying camera on set date, but like I can, so like we have a friendly competition sometimes.
Like, oh yeah, I, I mean, even till now, like if it's overhead pictures, she's better overhead pictures than I am. So it's just a thing I, I'm more better with like the 45 degree angle, like the very low one. She is better with the overheads. So where was I? Anyway, I think like with that brief, they wanted like Nigerian foods dishes or they like maybe healthy dishes, but like.
Uduak: Yeah, so it was like, um, it's a global brand, so they had like a global campaign going on and so they wanted to localize [00:33:00] it for Nigeria, so it still had to have some of those global dishes, but like with a Nigerian twists, right.
So I think that was like one of our first No be there actually, you know, we did one for the other
Rani: Competi. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man.
Uduak: But major like foray into like, because, so another thing, Issa, one of the reasons that we were not thinking of. Having a lot of Nigerian dishes in our portfolio because remember I had tried to reach out to this client that was supposedly like one of the biggest food brands and they said, we'll just use stock images.
So obviously I felt like if this big brand is saying they will just use stock images, then
Rani: What's the.
Uduak: Clearly there's no value in like,
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: Trying to create Nigerian dishes, right? Because they're just seen as
Rani: Whatever.
Uduak: Like, yeah. Not so valuable.
Rani: So like even that points inside.
Mica: Were they just wanting to pick stock images because they just didn't know where to go to, to seek a photographer or [00:34:00] because they really didn't see the value?
'cause I feel like they just didn't know and now they have you.
Uduak: Yeah, so I think like he mentioned, I think it was like the people who were in charge of the brand at that point in time and just not seeing the possibilities. Again, Nigerian food, I mean now we have like a lot of recipes and so many things and like it's still good.
But for a long while it was like largely, and it's still in some ways undocumented, like I mentioned, that we have 250 tribes, so it is, it's still pretty undocumented. So I don't think creatively they could see how this would work with Nigerian food or how it would be valuable. Mm. Right. And I also think that, um, maybe they also didn't, like you mentioned the sec, the second thing, maybe they also didn't think it was achievable in Nigeria or within Nigeria, because [00:35:00] interestingly, we were the first.
Nigerian food photographers that ever shop for them. And this is like a brand that has been in existence since I was born.
Rani: Oh, before.
Uduak: So yeah, sorry. Since way before. Yeah. Way, way, way before. Even.
Rani: Before your mother.
Uduak: Exactly. It's like, it's like one of the biggest, most national brands obviously. And their presence in Nigeria alone has been like since a very long time.
Rani: Ages.
Uduak: Yeah. Ages.
Rani: Wow.
Uduak: So it's like we were like the first, and like even before they could use us, we had to be like approved by like the original office in South Africa. Do you understand? Because at that point in time, they didn't trust Nigerian creative.
Rani: Oh yeah. They still don't trust.
Uduak: Us. Yeah. They didn't trust Nigerian creators to create content that was like on a global level.
Rani: Actually, I think the problem at that point in time, right? Because even with um, video TV ads in that were shown to a Nigerian audience, what brands would do even like Nigerian. Big brands like banks or whatever, or [00:36:00] telecommunications companies, they would literally just go to South Africa, come back to Nigeria.
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: And um, they would publish it here. They would.
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: Broadcast it here. They would never shoot anything here. Yeah. So like, even when you notice that, like, okay, some brands, the multinational at least started like.
Uduak: Yeah. And, and like even in terms of like the food, right? So they would have a dish that is a Nigerian meal.
But it wasn't shot in Nigeria. It was shot in another African country.
Rani: Mm-hmm.
Uduak: But it kind of looks weird because this is not really how the meal looks or this is not really how the meal is styled. And Nigerian wouldn't pair this, or Nigerian wouldn't put these two meals together in the same plate. So they would have those things.
And so obviously like there would be a disconnect with the viewers. 'cause it just looks flat.
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: It doesn't look related. All, it doesn't look interesting and stuff like that. So Nigerian mills were [00:37:00] not visually shown love. I think it has like the best way it, so when you would see photography like open and jam, it didn't look so great.
Rani: I think like you could even say that, um, there was a point in time where, why are you looking at me like that? I, I think there was a point in time that we even had a discussion about like. Making Nigerian food look nice is like a challenge, right?
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: And like, I think over time and like doing Nigerian food for like big brands, in fact, there was even one time where like the brief was more like, oh, make things look authentic.
And like literally, I think a challenge that we kind of had was, oh dude, how do you style Nigerian food and elevate it? But like, it doesn't need to be elevated, like literally just [00:38:00] fricking do it. Like you would do it in your house, man. Like, you just put, you, you don't arrange it, you just put rice on your plate and you put chicken and you put your salad in and like, it, it's nice you're hungry, you that that's what you want to eat, right?
And like I, I think the brand manager that we were working with at that point in time was like say, oh man.
This looks okay, but I think what you need to do is just like scatter it around and like being, because we can see how prim and proper she is as a person. You know, she probably like took like a good 20 minutes to get ready before this interview.
Mica: She looks amazing,
Rani: Super organized and all this type of stuff. And like we're doing that shoot and she was saying, yeah, like just make it disorganized and like this goes against everything she stands for because like she had planned [00:39:00] everything. We did the mood board, we pinned it on the notice board in the shoots.
It's gonna be like this. She spits all the plates and like all the deal shoots. You're telling me I should scatter the food. Like what do I look like? And you know, like I'm taking the pictures with the, I'm like, okay, just scatter it. You know when, when she goes, we do how we want, but just scatter it while she's here and like you scatter it and it's like, wait, hold on.
You know, like you're taking pictures and it's like, oh my God. Like this is like what was missing all along. Like don't try to force this food to be what is not like fine, do all your nice lighting and like you do your normal styling tricks. You know, you don't fully, should I mention.
Uduak: Well you, you, you style it.
Rani: Like you style it, like you.
Uduak: Line with the culture.
Rani: Culture line with the culture.
Uduak: You understand not like you think it's supposed to look this way to Ghana, like Western or.
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: [00:40:00] Whatever. So I think like that would say is that it was another.
Rani: That was the turning.
Uduak: Yeah. And that was before that. That was like a struggle for us because again, like, I mean I mentioned before that there were barely any food photographers in Nigeria.
And so you think about the fact that we're trying to create stuff that we don't have reference. So we have to like, we have to create the template of how Nigerian food is to be photographed. So we have to figure that out 'cause we don't have anything to.
Rani: Go against.
Uduak: To reference. Yeah, yeah.
Mica: Hearing you mention about knowing, okay, this dish wouldn't be served with, with that side dish and it wouldn't be served at this time of day.
I mean, that reminds me so much of the TV show, the last of us and the first season or the first episode, they featured a scene in Austin and Aaron and I, we rolled our eyes because the way that they made Austin look in the show, they made it look like this [00:41:00] country, western town and like everyone's wearing cowboy boots and, and they were like featuring this in like 2014 and 15 and I was just like, okay, first of all, Austin's a city.
There's not. Any country bump in anything in Austin. And this looks more like a small rural town in Texas, but this isn't, it's like the misconception of what Austin looks like. It just, it made me laugh so hard and I was like, obviously the people that are making decisions, the creative decisions, they've never been to Austin.
What's something that people outside of Lagos outside of Nigeria, outside of Africa, often miss or misunderstand about? Like the food and the creative scene with where you were?
Rani: Mm. I think, actually, let me even touch on what you were saying. So it's kind of like that thing where Hollywood makes Mexico in a certain, um, shade wise balance.
Yeah. I think it's [00:42:00] like that whole thing of like looking at things through stereotypical lenses, man. Like if you, every, there's so much uniqueness. Right around like food in Africa and like cultures. I mean, one thing that we didn't even talk about, right? I think like from transitioning, from being commercial photographers, I think the next thing that we really talk about it.
Yeah, screw it. It's in production anyway. So like last year we started working on a documentary series. Um, I mean, we haven't published anything yet and like that's even a challenge in its own way because trying to get funding, I'll just say it is what it is, man. Mm-hmm. Like maybe this is like one of those things where I feel like every step of our journey is like maybe we've been, think we've been ahead of our time, we've been ahead of our time and it's fine.
Right? It's 'cause like, oh, you started doing the retro photography when. It wasn't really a [00:43:00] thing. And now the common thing, like commercial photography kind of like entered that space and it's like I still think like brands over here don't rate us enough or like don't give us enough chance. Because like even the Nigerian, non multinational companies that do exist, right?
Great dude, like there's such a pain in the ass because it's like why are you guys still using stock images, bro, we're here. We can do stuff for you. We can elevate your brand, we can elevate your packaging or whatever. Like screw the cost, man. Like come on, like let's just work. Maybe sometimes like I'm trying to give a proposal and the security guard is like trying to literally gate keep you from entering the company and it's just like blood was like, oh my goodness.
But whatever, like, anyway, I digress with the documentary filmmaking. So I think like we wanted to tell the Nigerian [00:44:00] food story in an authentic type of way. I mean, obviously you can't tell everything, but essentially I think we wanted to start with like street food because it's like, oh, that's one thing that like everybody here can relate to.
Like everybody eats street food. Even the upper class still like the taste of suya from the suya place. There might be like a local restaurants where it's literally just like, oh, you walk in like kind of unstructured in that it's not a posh environment and it's literally like, oh, give me two scoops of rice.
Give me like three pieces of beef. Gimme this as well, gimme some plantain. You know, everybody can relate to that over here, right? So like, but once it's capture street food. But I think like the problem when we started shooting street food is um, we had willing participants, but when you started like pre-interviewing them and like actually interviewing them, [00:45:00] and I think we even went the extra mile dude.
Like we got a trans leaders to speak to them so they would be comfortable speaking their local language or whatever. So like they can tell you the real story instead of like trying to get them to speak in Queens English. Right. So whatever. I think like a common point that we found was like most of these guys were literally just doing food business as a means to survive.
Not because they actually necessarily enjoyed doing this, and I never wanted to be the one to sell that narrative.
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: Even if 10 people watch it, I don't want to give that narrative. Right.
Uduak: Because you'll be trying to talk about the food and. Highlight the food and stuff and they would be like, oh, oh, if I get a, if I have another thing to do, I'll just leave this business.
Rani: But like, so.
Uduak: I'm like, oh.
Rani: Oh my God. But, but like the thing is, right, I'll use an example. Like I think we shot a suya guy where I used to live, right? And. [00:46:00] Like, I had been eating at this CI guy's place since, since I was a teenager. I know I don't look that old, but this was maybe like 15 years ago. If I shave this off, I look like I'm 18 again.
I'm telling you. So like I would go to this guy and for those who dunno what suya is, it is basically like barbecue, right. Our local barbecue. So I would go to this guy's place, right? And like, I'm very particular about like where I buy my suya from because it has to be creme de la creme man. Um, so like, I've been to so many suya places and I can literally tell you like there's one place I'm so happy that they're close to our house 'cause it's the best, it's the best.
Mica: Man.
Rani: But like this guy's particular place, he would do some very creative things. So like he, I have never seen this before. He had this thing called container. Right. And he would take the intestine of like a cow and remove [00:47:00] whatever is inside the intestine, clean it, of course, sanitary procedures. And he would stuff it with like, um, the hump from the cow, which is like a cut.
Uduak: First.
Peppers.
Rani: Meats that.
Uduak: With the soya spice. So we make like a sausage.
Rani: You'll make a sausage out of it.
Uduak: With like the onions and the pepper.
Rani: Yes.
Uduak: And meat inside it. We'll roast it.
Mica: That sounds so good.
Rani: To me. That thing that. Little thing, right? For me it's like, what the fuck? Like this is a labor of love. Like how do you not make this place from a place of passion?
So in my mind, let's go interview this guy because like surely this guy actually loves what he does. Come to find out after interviewing him and everything, like I didn't even know what the hell he was telling our translator. It was just like, oh yeah, he's very passionate about that. Ask him again, whatever.
Like when we got somebody to actually translate [00:48:00] everything properly, it was just like, damn like hard life, man. Like he does not want to be doing this for a living. But unfortunately, it's like, what else can I do? This is the only thing I know how to do, so I'm just gonna continue doing this.
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: Right.
Uduak: Yeah, and it's not like those stories are not important, but. We didn't wanna start out with like pushing that narrative of you don't care about your food, you don't care about your culture. This is not something you're proud of. This is not like, there's just so much. Yeah. Like that kind of narrative coming out of Africa.
Like this is.
Rani: And like I.
Uduak: Yeah, this is a struggle.
Rani: We from thoughts like.
Uduak: Yeah. So we wanted to, because the idea of it is that we wanted to celebrate African and Nigeria, or we want to not want it, want to celebrate and just like highlight right. Platform, African and Nigerian food. Right. And so we want to create stories that celebrate it, not stories that put it down.
Mica: And it sounds like there's. Like an emotional connection to [00:49:00] food for y'all.
Rani: Yeah.
Mica: Food is the center of what you do, and you're proud of it, and you wanna show it off, and you wanna show the people who are making the food. And so it's like a hard conversation to hear them say, eh, there's not a lot of passion in it for me.
It's just something that I happen to be good at and it's something that allows me to take care of my family. This is just Tuesday for me. And you're like, what? What? What do you mean you're not passionate about this?
Yes.
Yeah.
Oh my goodness.
Rani: Because like there was even one, uh, okay, so like where she's from is in like another parts of Nigeria that's like one off flights from here and.
So there's this thing called bush meats, which is literally just like meats that you buy from the bush, right? Like in the, you.
Uduak: Buy from the.
Rani: Bush? No, sorry. It's like whatever they catch in the forest. Well they call the bush the forest, right?
Uduak: The.
Rani: Forest.
Uduak: The bush.
Rani: Wild meats. [00:50:00] They, they catch it and they kill it and like whatever they catch is like bush meats, right?
So it could be like antelope or it could be, should I say grass cutter?
Uduak: Grass cutter?
Rani: Yes. Grass cutter. Yeah. Go, go Google. Or grass cutter is Guys.
Mica: Wait, what are grass cutters? Hold on, I'm gonna Google what a grass cutter is. Uh, am I gonna be terrified? I'm gonna be scared, aren't I? Oh, no. See, this is, oh my God.
They look like Guinea pigs. Yeah. What?
Rani: Like, they eat, they eat them, man. So like.
Mica: Those are huge. Holy shit.
Oh my God. I would die. I would die if I ran into the.
Rani: The thing is, I've always wondered how they actually catch them because like, I feel like next time I go to her side, to her part of the country, I need to actually pay somebody [00:51:00] that goes to hunt these things.
Take me with you. Like, uh, I don't care what time he goes, just take me with you. I wanna see how you actually.
Mica: Catch this thing. Take me with you. '
Rani: cause like, because I feel like these animals are quite crafty, so like you have to have like a certain level of expertise in catching them on a frequent basis.
Like he.
Mica: They look huge.
Rani: You're not going into the forest for fun. Like you're coming back with something or you're not making money that day. Right. So like for you to catch these things consistently, like I, I'm curious, I need to actually see, but um, like when they make the bush meats where she's from, like I've never had anything like it before and I've had bush meat to the past, but like from where she's from, oh my God.
Like is it.
Uduak: Okay, so something you should know. So.
Your
Rani: Experience.
Uduak: What they should know is that where I'm from are known for really good food. If you ask anyone in Nigeria, they would say, Calabar people have the best food.
Rani: [00:52:00] And true.
Uduak: So we care a lot about food.
Mica: I'm trusting everything that you're saying food wise because.
I've never had a grass cutter from the pictures that I saw. I'm like, this looks pretty damn good actually.
Rani: Oh, you'll love it. You'll love it.
Mica: How do you go about finding that connection, that common ground with them so that you feel like you do walk away with something?
Rani: So I think like what it was for us was we hadn't been like thinking about, maybe it's the subject matter, right?
But like we decided to look at a new age of like Nigerian chefs that aren't afraid to experiment with either like traditional ingredients or meals.
Uduak: Techniques or.
Rani: Techniques, right? But they just want to try something different with those concepts. And because [00:53:00] like you're looking at people that. Are doing this as like a full-time thing and like they're willing to experiment and push boundaries beyond like what people know as like traditional food.
Right. We felt like that would be the perfect type of shift to focus on because like they're actually doing it from a place of passion and like they actually care about the Nigerian or African food story and like they care about merging.
Uduak: Yeah.
Rani: Because I think like that's the only way you get food to really be celebrated.
Like fusion cuisine is like one of those things. Or probably.
Uduak: Not necessarily fusion because fusion means that you are combining it with another culture. So it is not necessarily that, but it's the idea of platforming people who care about like the African or Nigerian food just as much and they are doing that in their everyday life.
That's [00:54:00] what they're doing us. And so we just obviously like talk about them and showcase their stories and what they're already doing. Right. People who are already doing the work and it's like, well, just amplifying their voices. Right? So it's not necessarily fusion because actually.
Rani: No.
Uduak: She doesn't do fusion.
Rani: You don't even say it's a fusion thing. I would probably just say like, even if it's not fusion, right? One of the people that we interviewed had a take, whereas if maybe like bush meats might be something you would be scared to try, right? But like yeah, familiar with the concept of like a bruschetta, right? So I could maybe make like a bush meat bruschetta and you'd be interested in trying that, right?
Because like a bruschetta is something that you're already familiar but you.
Uduak: Love with.
Rani: And like he gets to taste that bush meat in like a nice tiny little amount. Like you're more open to actually trying like the proper [00:55:00] traditional Yeah.
Uduak: Yeah. So yeah, so like maybe you are familiar with eating mashed potatoes, right?
And so if we typically eat yam in Nigeria boiled and we try to serve it to you boiled, it might be a bit hesitant, but if we mash the yam and it like it's more, it's a bit more familiar to you, right? So they're trying, they have interesting ways in which they're trying to push like Nigerian food out there whilst not like losing the essence of it, right?
But just trying to, a lot of times we imagine it in other forms and not think that Nigerian food has to be boxed in a certain way, right? And so obviously we thought that this was like a better angle to go and more in line with like what we think about Nigerian food. And so obviously those would be more appropriate subjects to start with.
Mica: That's brilliant. And. I love that idea. The last year I found myself just kind of going through the motions, like, oh yeah, I'm a photographer. This is [00:56:00] the way I make my living. There was no passion behind what I was doing, and so I need to like take a look around and seek out other avenues of creativity so that way when I come back to photography and I come back to food, I have something new to offer.
I have something new to contribute. When we did the cookbook club and I was trying to find a Nigerian book to highlight, I struggled to find one. And the ones that I did find, there weren't any pictures. And the ones that did have pictures, the pictures were from the nineties and I was just like, okay, so I know that this is not what this looks like now.
Why? Why isn't there more of this? And. I found myself frustrated as a photographer. I was like, this sounds delicious. This food sounds delicious. I could totally see this being photographed. Why aren't there more [00:57:00] books out there, more restaurants out there that are highlighting Nigerian food? 'cause it should be.
Yeah. So I just that I would find that really frustrating. What do you think it would take to bring that more, I mean, your documentary series de, I wanna know when that's coming out. It would definitely be a good push in that direction. What can you do as food photographers to continue pushing that?
Uduak: What would.
Rani: That be?
That's a good question.
Mica: I'm full of 'em.
Rani: Probably just say like my own take on things is, um, I dunno. I think you might see that image of Nigerian food being pushed out or like African food being pushed out more by like content creator nowadays more so than like. Professional food photographers per, you know what I'm saying?
Because I think what it, it's like this kind of situation where everybody around the side of the [00:58:00] world right now, at least in these times of global inflation, nobody is really trying to, I feel like, I don't know if it's like this where you are as well, but my take on it is, um, I feel like creatively right now, not too many people are trying to create for just creative sake, right?
Is if this thing is not making me money, well am I gonna spend so much time and effort just doing portfolio work and putting it out there and okay, people are gonna see it. So what.
Mica: Yeah, well, like people are trying to create, so like you hardly find.
Rani: And maybe I, I feel like maybe this trend is gonna switch around one day when people are tired of looking at the viral reels and stuff, man, make photography great again.
Please. Like, I just wanna go on social media and just look at nice pictures. Again, not always videos, like kind of just press a button and be like picture slowly.
Mica: [00:59:00] How has your creative eye changed over the years from when you started videography or photography and now as you're doing this documentary series, how has your creative eye changed over the years?
Rani: I think like, I don't know if this is like a thing that every photographer goes through, because even with my pictures of people, right? Like in the beginning when you probably started doing photography and like editing in Photoshop, I'm sure you would throw on like a thousand presets and over-edited the hell out of that.
Make sure the blues are really blue and the orange you do the orange and blue effect and all that nonsense. You started having like this skin retouching thing going on and like you'd over touch everybody's skin. I think looking at my portraits and stuff that I do now, right. I barely even do anything in terms of editing because [01:00:00] I'll make sure the lighting is good right then and there and like poses everything is top-notch.
Right. And the only thing I'm really doing with the editing when I'm on my computer is literally just removing blemishes. Right. That's it. And I think like with food, I think we've started shooting things in like a more authentic type of manner. So even when it comes, that's like where you even do all the work, man.
Like actual shooting of things and arranging things and all the rest. Right? Because like when it comes to the actual editing, we're just removing blemishes at the end of the day. That's like how the style has changed. It's just become like a more authentic experience at the end of the day. Maybe now we're just doing is, oh, the background has a stain on it's remove that, or the plate has that little steam.
We forgot to clean itself. Yeah, we need to remove that. I mean, that's literally it. Or. Maybe like maybe this light glare is a bit too much here. Just take [01:01:00] care of that.
Uduak: Yeah. Yeah. So I think like the, what I say, the, the kind of vibe that the clients want, at least right now in this era is seemingly like converging with the kind of style we want.
So remember that they were coming from, they just wanted the stock images, the white plates and the white background. And so obviously they were moving away from those stock images because they wanted stuff that looked more authentic. And then remember that you also talked about backlash from the audience about like things looking like fake and them not trusting it and stuff.
So obviously the brand wanted to move in a way that was more relatable to people and more authentic. And that seemed to like also fit with like the kind of like the vibe we wanted, right? So whilst we now say, okay, we're doing work for commercial work, it doesn't look so so commercial. It still looks, they bring more like editorial, right?
As opposed to commercial. And so I think that's like. Something that has again changed. Right now we're like more comfortable in like [01:02:00] our style and don't feel like we have to change a lot to, I mean obviously like there are the briefs that are not really that, right? Like we just did a bridge recently of like a biscuit brand that's like launching in Nigeria and like it's like more like a lot of it is like product shot of the biscuit together and stuff like that.
Obviously just have to like be clean and everything. But apart from that, generally, so I think our creative eye right now and this regards to photography is more like decisive, more like sure of what we're going for. Less confused our creative eye regarding like this documentary work we're doing. I'll say like we're back to like square one of how we were when we started photography.
Kind of, yeah. But yeah, we're figuring that part out.
Mica: This question is for you Uduak. What's a dish that you think the world hasn't visually appreciated enough yet.
Uduak: To be honest, like I don't know that the world has visually [01:03:00] appreciated any Nigerian.
Rani: Yeah.
Uduak: Any Nigerian dish. That's true. I feel like maybe like taste wise dishes that is jollof rice and pork puff and know those kind of, do you know puff puff? Did you see anything about puff puff?
Mica: Yes, yes, yes. Are they like the donut balls? Like they're kind of like.
Uduak: They're like beignets donuts.
Mica: They're fried. Ooh, yes, yes. So I was gonna make that for our cookbook and then I thought, well that's a lot of work. So I'm not doing that and I don't know how to deep fry anything.
Uduak: Oh, well you should. You should try that.
Mica: Oh, they look so good.
Uduak: Anyways, so I feel like those kind of dishes are known and like suya and stuff, both like for how they taste, I don't know, like our dishes are really appreciated for how they look. I don't really think so, but in terms of which I think would really work well, like visually and could be more appreciated visually, I'll say like our soups, well we have a lot of soups in Nigeria, like [01:04:00] a lot.
So our soups are not like, first of all, like they're not light soups. Right. And typically you eat them with a side dish, which is like, of like a carb side dish and dip it in the soup so they're like rich and heavy. Right. But yeah, we have a lot of soups. Yeah. Mostly very nutritious. So diverse. So vibrant.
We use like all kinds like. There's almost no vegetable in Nigeria. There is no use for a soup. So we have a lot of soups and the textures like, so we, so like, you know the chickens, you made a chicken sesame dish. Right? So you know, like there, there's so-called benne seed soup and it's essentially like a sesame seed soup.
Mica: Yes.
Uduak: So we have like a whole lot of soups.
Mica: Oh.
Uduak: And like different colors. We have soups that are orange. We have soups that are made of blades. We have soups that are made of palm fruit. We have soups that are made of like so many things. So soups look really good. And I think [01:05:00] the word that, that.
Mica: I'm looking at, the black sesame seed soup and Ooh, that's beautiful.
Uduak: Yeah. Like Manny mentioned is not as complicated as like we initially thought, but like, I like the fact that you mentioned like the dishes, like the plate you put it in, right? Like that's something like really important. Like you need plates that really contrast with the dishes. So my very handy tool for styling Nigerian dishes is a color wheel.
Mica: What's it called?
Uduak: Oh ha. Have the color wheel. And I literally like try to map it out, right?
Mica: Yes. The color wheel and color theory.
Uduak: Yeah, the color wheel really helps me. But then another thing that I would say, particularly for Nigerian dishes with like the styling, and it has to be like, and I know this is a pre-K for any kind of food photography.
We worked, especially for Nigerian food because we use a lot of vegetables and we use like fresh and we hardly use, um, [01:06:00] processed food. So it, the food has to be fresh and it seems so like mundane, but like that's like a make or break, right? So I had this client and they had like a consultant, right? I'm not really sure what the consultant was consulting on, but like.
Mica: Yeah, he was that consultant.
Uduak: And he came for the shoot, but he was like a big star celebrity or a personality, right. Or important person. And he came for the shoots and he was getting upset that the shoot started that. I can't remember what the court was ignite that he came here and why are all, where are the dishes?
What they not all made, like he expected that when he comes at nine, if we have 10 dishes to shoot, we should have started cooking them at like 5:00 AM What? And when he comes, when it's time for, shoot, we have, we have it all made. I'm like, I thought he was supposed to be a consultants. Like have you never done food photography?
You can't make the food down [01:07:00] and tip the food in like the pots, right? By the time it's time for that dish, it's like crap. And then obviously like most, especially for like, again, like Nigerian dishes, right?
Mica: Let me ask this question. What do you. Each bring to the table creatively that the other doesn't. So what do you think your strengths are and how do the two of you balance your strengths and your weaknesses to stay this dynamic team that you are?
Uduak: Okay, so I'll say like first things first, Rani is like very technical, right? Like generally Rani is like a technical handy guy. Rani likes anything's computer electronics. Like even if your car is, if you're like a friend of his like stranded on the road, like they car, he's the person that they would call, he would know what to do or he will know the right mechanics.
So he's a very like handy, he likes technical details and all those kind of things. So [01:08:00] obviously like with our work, anything that is the technical detail, the lighting. Yeah, Rani knows it. He knows it, or he's a nerd like that. So that's definitely something Rani brings. And I like that you mentioned like not just like the hard skills, right, but like also like guess in terms of like soft skills.
Rani is a very happy go lucky guy, optimistic, vivrant, energy warm and all that. So like that's very good energy that he brings because even in terms of like our client dynamics, we also have like different client dynamics, right? So like Rani is one that. The clients would likely warm up to? Well, it also depends on the client personality. Rani,
will we chat with them, have some random discussions about their cat or their dog, but they really kinda has to hand the client around to me because when it's time to deliver the work, I'm the one that would make sure the client's happy with the deliverables in that sense. Right. Like obviously [01:09:00] like the project is on timeline, the deliverables are met and stuff like that.
So I'm very like produce producer ish. Right. So I, I'm big picture oriented, so I make sure like the different pieces I enter, I'm very good at like interpreting the brief deliverables, making sure like the different pieces when we need talent, they are pulled in really like just planning everything out.
Right. Executing it. And then, but also like in terms of like the creativity, I have like a very good eye for detail and like aesthetics and styling and stuff like that. So like. I wouldn't have the vision of how I needed to, how we want it to look like necessity, right? How I want it to be composed and stuff like that.
And the different elements I know I to bring to the place that would give us that. But like Rani would be like crossing like, oh, okay, if we move the light this way, it would help the texture a bit better and stuff like that. So in terms of like the creativity we book, like bring like those two, [01:10:00] those two different things.
Rani is the one that when the client wants to like, remember the story he was saying earlier that, ah, let's just do for our portfolio. I'll be the one that would be like, no, you cannot pay this amount. We would not do this job, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Rani is one that like time spend? Oh, maybe. Oh no. I think now he's getting a bit tougher.
Right.
Rani: I'll just, I'll still, I'll give my you, but I'll still give you what I wrote in the invite. Yes. Week. I agree, Don. I edited pictures. That's all I'm giving you man. Ain't nobody got time for that. If you want more feet. Although I think it was like, I think like once we had a photo shoot and there was this, one of the meals was pizza, right?
And like you needed plain cardboard pizza boxes. And the person we had ordered from Failed to deliver on [01:11:00] time and they made the pizza thing, like one of the first things we had to shoot in the morning.
Mica: Oh my God.
Rani: And it's like, fuck sake man. So literally I call everybody into the kitchen and I'm like, guys, go on Google and on Google, you're going to type pizza near me.
Right. Find restaurants that are selling pizza and have plain cardboard pizza boxes. That's what you need to look for. So like everybody is searching their phones. Then somebody now turns his phone to me, oh, this person has pizza boxes for sale. I'm like, no, pizza me, me. We're gonna order a pizza or like five fucking pizzas or whatever.
We're gonna go there for the pizza. But tell them like, look, just put in an nylon bag or whatever. We just came for the boxes. Whatever you stick behind. I'll [01:12:00] go back, I'll come back with boxes and they're looking at me like I'm mad right. And like they're pressing their phones like unsure, like, dude, like what are you saying we should do?
And I'm like, oh, I found one. And I called them. How much for three Margherita pizzas large, they're like this amount, when will they be ready? By 10 minutes I'll be there in five. Then I'm like, I'm literally going right? And like I go with one of the production assistants. I'm like, let's go, let's go. Then like I get to the restaurant and I'm like, you cannot think of much.
And I am nylon bag. You can put the pizza in there. Me. Just give me the boxes. I just, it's three pizzas. I ordered the three boxes. Thank you. Giving the pizza in nylon. I'll meet you back at the shoots. And I had the taxi waiting to take me back. I like to make matters work. Like the road that we were doing the shoot on was [01:13:00] blocked off because of construction.
So I had to like jump over a construction barrier to get back to the shoots with the pizza boxes.
Mica: Oh my gosh.
Rani: Well, yeah, that's the kind of person that I am. Like if it just goes beyond like the lighting and stuff, it's like, oh, if there's that kind of problem, I'll find a.
Mica: When you're married and you own a business together, there will be disagreements, there will be different viewpoints.
And so how do you keep the work work and the personal? The personal?
Rani: Well, I think it's like because of a lot of our work is like project based, so you're only really just working in waves essentially when you have like a lot of work to do. So it's like, it's either the photo shoots or like the pre-production before the photo shoots.
So it's like, oh, we have to do this and that. Um, uh, yeah, just going [01:14:00] through a checklist really, to be honest. Then like shoots. Whatever. Like you don't even think about to marriage life or anything. You're just like trying to get this outta the way. Then I think like probably the post-production. So like we just have our way of doing things where it's like nobody has to stand on anybody's head, right?
'cause I think with like post-production, I'm like the one that takes the lead in that regard and it's like, oh, I'll just call and be like, oh yeah, just come and check everything and crop it before we send it to clients. Um, or is this good? Or, I feel like maybe post-production works in such a way us like, oh, she's better at making selections.
But like I'll do a narrow down and she'll do a narrow down. She'll send it to them to approve and I'll edit that. You know? So if we just have this unspoken process of how things go. And it's cool. I think [01:15:00] the friction points was trying to force her to like edit pictures and it's just like no need. Like she doesn't Was.
Uduak: That a friction point?
Rani: Yeah. Because you were frustrated like, oh, you don't know how to edit this like this or like, it was just inefficient. Like, I didn't mind being the person editing, 'cause like I have this whole nice PC over here. Like she probably won't let me show the messy desk. It's all good. But you know, like I actually enjoy editing good stuff, so I don't mind being the editing guy.
Like it's whatever. It just works like that. If I'm editing, she's probably just gonna be in another room doing whatever, like in outside that I'm editing pictures. I mean we just, it's whatever, like we just do our thing now. Like everybody's on their own. She is.
Uduak: I don't think that there's any.
Rani: I think maybe the only time sir, guilty shots that there would be a problem is if it's like seven or eight at night and I'm feeling [01:16:00] like, oh, come and check this.
And it's like, tomorrow please. I'm done for the day. I'm trying to relax. And it's like, oh, just come and see. Just, just be like, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow.
Mica: And she's setting that boundary. She's like, I am done tomorrow.
Uduak: Yeah. Yeah. So like Rani and I work at different timelines. Like I wake up at 5:00 AM Rani wakes up much later.
Mica: Hey, I wake up at five.
Uduak: Yeah, I wake up at five and I sleep. So Rani, I'm not going to be working at 3:00 AM except like there's a deadline. But most times if there's a deadline, I already kind of factor that in. But I mean, obviously sometimes there are like circumstances, but like. On a random day at 3:00 AM if there's no deadline or pressure.
Rani: No 3:00 AM man, come on.
It's pm. Like, no. So the thing is right, I am the kind of person that is like on my computer. So like two in the [01:17:00] morning, man.
Uduak: Okay, 2:00 AM, 3:00 AM 2:00 AM 3:00 AM. Man, what's the difference?
Mica: I almost chuck on my water. 2:00 AM now I'm in bed. I'm in bed.
What?
Uduak: So I'm just saying that because we work at different timelines, sometimes it's hard to, but I mean, it brings me to what I wanted to say before is that I don't think we have any. Find like lines between like our work and personal because like our work is so like woven into who we are. I think the problem maybe if we had like another kind of work to get oversight different.
So I think that as we're understanding each other personal wise while also kind of understanding each other, like workwise as well. Also like leaning into each other's strengths, workwise while also leaning each other's strengths like personal wise. And so like [01:18:00] regarding work, he knows that, oh, I'm good at this.
I know he's good at this. I would like, okay, if we have like a lighting issue, right? And I think the lighting should be this way and many things, the lighting should be this way, I'm gonna like likely defer to what Rani is saying because I know, and we both know that Rani is good at like lighting. If there is a styling challenge and we have different opinions, he's more likely going to defer to what I say because he knows that, okay, that is like my strong suit.
So I think that over time we've just like learned each other in that way. And so also that, that's the same thing that like express like personal wise, right? So we kind of like allow each other, like have our wins here and there, like, because we like respect, like yeah, we respect like what each person, um, brings to the table.
And if someone cares about something a lot, you just let them have what they care about. If you don't care if when you have what you really care about, they letting you have what you really care about. So I think it's just, I don't think there's any like fine line, [01:19:00] right? Like obviously, like now for instance, he talked about the fact that we're working on like a documentary, right?
And that's kind of like our baby. And so it is like we can't be talking about our baby at. 9:00 PM I mean it's technically worth, but like we really care about it. So like our work and business lives are like sort of like woven. So.
Rani: Yeah.
Mica: That makes total sense. That makes total sense. You kind of already answered it a little bit, but what's the dream destination if perfect project, perfect client that you could have, what destination or market would you love to break into next?
Rani: Good question.
Uduak: I think, um, yeah, like you said, we already kind of touched about it. Like I think it would really be photographing more African dishes. Yeah. Like across Africa. I mean like is even the same thing for like our documentary, right? Documenting dishes across Africa. So I can't say one specific country, [01:20:00] but just like expanding.
Right.
Rani: Actually, I have one in mind.
Uduak: Okay. I
Rani: feel like for me. I probably wanna focus on maybe like Kenya or Madagascar, because like, I think, I mean, I haven't eaten much Kenyan cuisine in my life, but from what I know about it, there's, I like Indian food as well. So I think from what I've researched, Kenya has a bit of Indian influence in their food because like immigrants from India came to Kenya, so like influence their own Kenyan cuisine.
So I really like, like.
Uduak: Chapatis and stuff like.
Rani: That. Yeah, it's like Shawarma in Nigeria is ludicrous as far I'm concerned because they put Frankfurters in its man in Shawarma. Like why are you putting Frankfurters in Shawarma, man? It's just one of those things you just gotta accept, like food changes when it travels around the world.
So it's okay. It's okay. I mean, I'm guilty. It's okay. [01:21:00]
Mica: Okay, so last question. Um, where can the listeners follow you, find you, when are you planning to release the docuseries so that way we can all be ready for that?
Rani: Amazing. So you can follow us on 1 1 1 7 collective on Instagram. Our website is also 1 1 1 7 collective.com.
As far as the documentary goes, hey man, no dates set yet, but uh, we'll be sure to let you know and it will be big. I can promise you that. I can promise you that.
Mica: Well, thank you so much for being on the show, for coming on here and talking with me and so I just can't express how much I enjoy. I mean, I enjoyed this conversation so much.
This [01:22:00] episode is written and produced by me your host, Mica McCook.
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