068: From Hustle to Harmony: Finding Passion and Peace with Naomi Smith

Mica: [00:00:00] Welcome to the 68th episode of the Savory Shot.

The podcast where we talk about the art and soul of food photography. I'm your host with the most Mica McCook. I'm a food photographer out here in Austin, Texas where the barbecue is smoking. The light's got attitude, and I'm just out here powered by espresso shots and last minute miracles.

Before we jump into today's delicious episode, I got to start the show off by saying thank you to my day ones, my ride or dies. The ones who have been here since episode one dropped. Y'all are the secret sauce, the sparkle, and the reason I keep showing up with the mic and a messy heart. Y'all are the [00:01:00] wheels that keep this show rolling.

Okay, that was corny. I'm sorry. I'm gonna blame it on the coffee. I'm full of espresso this morning. So, uh, brace yourself.

If this is your first time listening, welcome, welcome to The Hot Mess Express. We don't always know what we're doing, but we're doing it with heart. Probably a cocktail or coffee in hand, and we're laughing the whole time. Anyway, glad you're here. Thanks for giving this tiny little podcast a chance. I hope you enjoy the show.

Feel free to email me, send me a DM. I'm always open to suggestions on how to make this a better show [00:02:00] for you. Alright, y'all, let's talk about today's guest. I'm joined by the one and only Naomi Smith. Naomi is an art director, food stylist, prop stylist, film director. Basically, if it's creative and complicated, Naomi's doing it and making it look effortless.

Let me tell y'all something about this episode. This was a fun one. I laughed so much in this interview, but what I loved most was how real we got about what it's like to lead a creative career when you are burnt out, stretched thin, and questioning what the heck you're doing with your life. Naomi opens up about saying yes to stuff that didn't serve [00:03:00] her.

I know some of y'all know all about that and can relate to that. Naomi opens up about saying yes to stuff that didn't serve her, and I know some of y'all listeners can relate to that. She also talked about the messy but beautiful journey of learning to say no with confidence. Learning to say no with your chest.

We talk about why rest is part of the work, even when your to-do list says otherwise. Have any of y'all put rest in your task list? I haven't. She talks about how directing her own shoots changed everything. My favorite part, we talked about the deep soulful connection between food and healing and what unfolds when you [00:04:00] quit shrinking, quit people pleasing, and finally, let your voice take up the space it's been begging for.

I'm excited to get this show started. I don't think there's anything left to say. If you're not hooked by this point, then boo, I don't know what to tell you, but I will say, before we get into all that juicy goodness, grab your coffee, a pen and paper, and let's start the show. Well, welcome to the Savory Shot, a biweekly show about the art and soul of working and food photography.

I'm your host, Mica McCook. Every other Wednesday I sit down to chat with professionals in the industry. So that you feast on only the best tips and strategies in the business. Alright, t, let's get started.[00:05:00]

Naomi, thank you so, so much for coming on the show on the Savory Shot. I'm so excited to have you here. So welcome to what I like to call the Hot Mess Express.

Naomi: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited about this conversation.

Mica: Oh man, I am too. I mean, right before we hit the record button, I was like, oh man, I could talk to you all day.

Like, this is like cafe style. Let's go have lunch and we're gonna be here. We're gonna close out the restaurant and talk all the fun stuff. But I wanna jump right into this. You are the literal definition of a multi creative, like you've got so many hats on and I love it. But you started out with the BFA in Photography and you are now film director, art director.

How did these worlds of photography, styling and directing, how do each fit in your life [00:06:00] at this moment?

Naomi: So when I was younger at 18, I really didn't know what to do, but I knew I wanted to go to art school, and of course when you go to art school, you have to choose a major. I thought photography would be one of those things.

I also really loved capturing memory of a moment or a situation. Just doing all the assignments in college was very fulfilling for me. And because I had to style my whole portfolio and doing all these assignments from the different professors I had. I thought it was very exciting. I think that's really kind of where my art direction, prop styling, food styling all came from is it really just started from college.

And when I graduated from college, I really didn't know what to do. So I was one of those people that cold called a lot. And I also kept track of who I was cold calling and whether people would give me a chance. So I was a photo assistant for up to six years while I was a photo assistant, I was PAing [00:07:00] reality shows and TV shows on top.

YouTube was blooming. So I was helping out with my friends on their YouTube channels and just creating like little comedy sketches for the local theaters. And it was all free except the PA stuff was paid and like the photo assistance was paid. The other big thing was since my BFA was in photography and advertisement focused on food and beverage, I really wanted to get into food.

And I did shoot a lot back then with just various events. Mostly my bread and butter was events, but I really wanted to shoot food. And I learned really quickly in Atlanta, there weren't a lot of people doing that. And those that did do it did it really well, and there wasn't really room for more food photographers back in 2013.

Like you just didn't think of it. Social media was not heavily used at that time, and restaurants [00:08:00] probably only worked with people they knew or that was referred to them. So I knew that already it was gonna be very hard. So I started reaching out to food stylists that I was coming across on LinkedIn, or if I Googled them, food stylists that were just around.

And a few of them gave me a chance. I worked at the Fratelli studio back in the day. I worked with the food stylist, James Herring and Charlene Perry. They're both retired now. But I worked with a couple of food photographers, Brian, uh Woodcock and Calvin Lockwood and a couple of other food photographers back then.

And I really loved it. But it was hard because like my main food stylist I worked with was Charlene Perry. During that time, I exclusively, mostly worked for her for styling, and I never grew outside of her. And when she got [00:09:00] sick, I wasn't fully developed yet. And then when she had to take a leave for up to two years, I didn't know what to do with myself.

And I said, never again will I put all of my eggs in one basket working for one person. And that's when I fell into the film industry and the movie industry was booming. I knew I could be an art director and leading stylist in design, production, design and started doing that on top of commercials. So I was always bouncing between commercials and TV shows, whatever job, because I was hustling hard at 20, I really just needed to pay my bills and build up a resume.

And so I just kept using my contacts and, and reaching people out was like, hey, if you need anyone, I'm down to collaborate. If you need someone for a shoot, I'm down to photos assist, I'm down to PA. I PA'd six different departments. This learning because like when you're straight out of college, [00:10:00] you know some things, but you also don't know the real world.

And I learned really fast in order for me to build up something. I had to learn from professionals and I had to give the chance to not be the know-it-all, but to absorb what I was learning on a job and hope and prayed that people liked my personality, liked who I was, and kept bringing me on to other things.

And that's how I really developed. So most of what I was doing was all by referrals. And this is the network. When you're in the editorial world, the commercial world, the film world, everything is a people's relationship. And you have to be building those relationships, keep communication, and also be on your best behavior, stay professional the entire time because anything you do, people will remember you, whether good or bad, and you wanna keep getting jobs.

So you wanna also always be open, but it's [00:11:00] absolutely okay if you don't get along with everyone.

Mica: Oh yeah, for sure. And something you mentioned earlier that I just had to snap my fingers to is, is not having all of your eggs in one basket. If the pandemic taught me anything, it was to have a backup plan for the backup plan and just to have my finger in a couple of other projects, other couple of ways of bringing in an income in case this doesn't work.

How do you stay open to creative opportunities that come your way without feeling burned out or without losing focus on the opportunities that you're already currently working on?

Naomi: That is a very good question and that is something I recently learned and the answer is when I was younger I got burnt out a lot.

'Cause I wanted opportunity. I was constantly seeking it. I would never let myself breathe. But [00:12:00] now being 35 and being more understanding of the world opportunities. I think what taught me how to not burn myself out was the pandemic. Taking a step back, appreciating what you have, your world, your hobbies, seeing your friends and family, and knowing where your support network is.

Also, I think for me, I needed therapy and I'm not sure if everyone needs therapy, but for me, I needed someone that I could talk to so I wouldn't put it on my friends or family or loved ones, and I felt that was a very healthy habit I created. Daily exercise, kept me from really being pushed over as well, and also keeping my body strong, staying hydrated.

I am all about using food to nurture my body and I definitely educated myself on this. I really am very [00:13:00] mindful of what I put in my body and what I don't eat when I'm working. And what I can eat when I'm not working. I also have taken away a lot of foods in my life that cause me to have brain fog. Like for example, my body doesn't really like fried food.

I always enjoyed it. Don't get me wrong. Fried food is great. I'm from the south, but it makes me very tired and I always knew that. So when I'm working, I don't eat anything fried, and I only treat it as a treat. I don't eat it all the time. I even once every eat it, every once in a while. I didn't take it away completely, but the things I did take away completely was I don't have any sodas.

That is something that I felt like I needed to do. And when I was in college, I drank a lot of coffee, like a lot of coffee. I think I destroyed my body like eight to 10 cups a day for four years.

Mica: Wow.

Naomi: Yeah. Like that was not healthy. I don't recommend that to anybody.

Mica: I mean, I was right up [00:14:00] there with you and I was a heavy smoker, so creative fields just kind of land in those kinds of vices.

Naomi: And so I took away coffee, caffeine, and I learned from my personality and my body and mindset, if I wanted to stay focused and organized, I needed to find another way to help me focus, not rely on coffee. I still drink caffeine to a degree. It's green teas primarily, but not every day and not even past four cups in a day.

I actually stop drinking caffeine entirely after 2:00 PM and I rely on fruits. I rely on my supplement. If I get a little groggy right around two, I take a B complex vitamin that really helps. I carry around my water bottle that has some electrolytes in it. I always have lemon water with me with a little bit of mint leaves and a sprinkle of sea salt.

I'm gonna tell you that does keep you energized 100%. So, yeah, I retrained my body during [00:15:00] the pandemic, and I'm the healthiest version of me now, and I stopped burning out as much because I started taking care of myself and being mindful of food, exercise, hydration. And if I know that I'm gonna have a busy week, I try not to stack up on too much in my schedule, and I know I need time to decompress in the evening.

So that is something that it's like, yes, you're gonna have opportunities. Don't ever think that you won't get this opportunity again. If someone wants to work with you, they're gonna keep reaching out, or you can just follow up with them later and be like, Hey, I can't work with you right now. But I can work with you on this week or in this month.

Let's get together and work and collaborate. And I think that's it. Like don't ever think like you won't have this opportunity again. I think when I was younger I always thought that this opportunity will never come and I like really like made it too dramatic and really it wasn't that.

Mica: No, I mean [00:16:00] you're dead on.

I remember my twenties just feeling like I had to constantly be moving and hit the ground running and that you sleep when you're dead. And I was one of the many who fell into the trap of like girl boss. And if you're tired, you work anyway and you work through, you burn the midnight oil and that type of thing.

And I feel like now that I'm entering into my forties. I'm all about the self-care and knowing like if I'm not right, then I'm creatively not gonna be right. So I'm gonna take a minute to go do my creams, put my skincare lotion on, and, and make sure I get a good sleep because the next day I need to be on top of everything.

And yeah man, I'm right there with you. I love that so much. And I think this is a good segue into my next question. As creatives, we often need different outlets to like [00:17:00] feed different parts of like who we are. What creative outlets other than the styling and directing photography nourish you? And what part of Naomi do they each light up?

Naomi: So every year, my partner and I, Justin and I, he and I create a budget of where we wanna travel. So we always plan out where we wanna travel. We don't travel in a luxury way, like we don't wanna go over a certain mountain. We are there and like I recently came back from Denmark, I highly recommend it to anyone.

It's a beautiful country. Try to explore more of Denmark than just Copenhagen. We went to two cities, Copenhagen and Aarhus, and then we took a plane to Amsterdam and that was a short trip of seven, seven or eight days, like including travel days. So that was really nice. Traveling to me definitely feeds my soul.

Though we can't do it often when I am traveling, no matter where I go, I wanna explore not [00:18:00] only the food that's in that country, but the culture and then the art history. What feeds my soul is always being curious. And even in Atlanta here when there's new exhibitions, one of my goals around the country, if the country has a botanical garden.

I love gardens. I love flowers and plants, and I love to see the different botanical gardens around the world. So that is something that I love to do. And then if I'm in a mountainous region, I try to always do one hike, one or two hikes as well. That's another thing I really enjoy doing. I know with hiking you can pace yourself, but you can also see the scenery and really immerse yourself in the land of wherever you're traveling.

Some of the places that I've traveled, I think I really got that from my mom. 'Cause my mom used to take me to see, visit her friends in New York or California. She had friends in Toronto and I had family in Hong Kong. So I was lucky that I got a chance [00:19:00] to experience Hong Kong when I was younger. I had visited there eight times in my life.

Sure. It's very different now 'cause I haven't visited Hong Kong in a long time, but I think last time I went was 2016, so that was the last time I was in Hong Kong. It's a big metropolis city, so it's constantly changing, so I might not even recognize it when I go back. What I also like to do if it's not involving like money is what I like to do at home is read.

I really enjoy reading, whether I'm reading fantasy, whether I'm reading nonfiction, or even just learning new recipes from my favorite chefs that had just released, released their books and just constantly working on skills in the kitchen. Not only being a good stylist on set, but actually also being a good cook.

Like knowing how things are done and knowing the differences between styling for camera and then styling and [00:20:00] eating at home and cooking for yourself or cooking for your loved one. And I am naturally very curious person, avid learner. So if I don't know something, I'm gonna go out of my way to go and learn it.

Mica: Oh, I love that.

I love that. Oh, that right there with the traveling that you do, I bet. Seeing like how other restaurants like present their dishes. What is the local produce like over there? Like I know all of that contributes to when you're on set and you're styling for a brand that's based in another country or based in another region of the country, like just having exposure to all of those different cultures, I feel like that's feeding into your career.

Am I right when I say that?

Naomi: Yes, you're absolutely right. Since I have a degree that focused on advertisement and marketing, the first thing when a production company or an agency [00:21:00] reaches out to me and they want my services. When it comes to food styling and prop styling, the first thing I ask is, do we have a color palette?

Do we need to focus on branding colors? Does the food also need to tie into that? What season is this gonna be shown? Is this year round or is it going to be for spring, summer, winter? When will it be released? And is there anything I need to avoid? Anything that might be a competition in other brands and things of that.

We know that California advertises completely different from New York. That's completely different from Atlanta. They're all different regions, and we know that Chicago, Minneapolis also advertise their food a little differently. So also doing the research and also asking these questions to my client to make sure that I'm doing the best that I can by also doing my research of what they have out there.

If the client says, we're rebranding, we don't wanna use anything that we had before. They'll [00:22:00] send me photos of references and be like, this is not what we want to do, we want to do, and then they send me images like this. That's very, very helpful. I find that if any clients are listening, having more mood boards of the do's and don'ts and giving a more clear vision to your stylists, to your designers, to your production companies is very, very helpful because then we can be like, okay, I fully know we're gonna avoid this tone, this color, this composition.

We're gonna upscale it, elevate it, or make it more farm to table. Making it more connecting to the audience, you know, completely taking away that artificial look and making it feel more genuine. It's all about lighting and composition when it comes to editorial. Or even with social media, like I've done a lot of brands that are more social media heavy now on their advertisements that they really push their product on various platforms.

And of [00:23:00] course I've worked on major campaigns for certain brands and they're releasing a very specific time, probably also with a celebrity. So we'll probably see like how is it gonna be approached? Is there a dietary restriction with your celebrity? How long do we have them for? We have to be mindful of timing when we're in shoots.

Like if we have the celebrity for at most five hours, everything has to be ready, they shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. And then we do the beauty shots afterwards and maybe a hand model is similar skin tone of the celebrity and then they left and then we keep continue shooting after they leave. There's a lot of things to think about with that.

Mica: Earlier you said something and I jumped and praised on it, but I do wanna touch on it again. About, if you don't know how to do something, you go out and learn it. For creatives who don't have that perspective or operate from that perspective, what would you say to them to like try to change their mind to adopt that perspective?

Naomi: Well, I would say [00:24:00] there's always more than one way to do something. My methods might not work for everyone, but staying creative and curious is an important aspect of any career. If you wanna be successful, you wanna be promoted, you wanna keep moving up, you want a more diverse portfolio with better clients, you have to know what is, I hate this word, but what's trending, what's not trending anymore, and also not worry about who's looking at you.

Also, still being mindful, just be you. Don't oversell yourself. Find your style and if you like something so much, people are also gonna be attracted to you because of your passion. People do generally gravitate towards the people that are avid learners and that they are curious and they're asking the right questions.

'Cause you don't wanna work with someone that only wants to push it their way or only their way, and that's it. There's no way, like nobody wanna [00:25:00] work with that because it's so rigid. And sometimes when you're on set, whether motion or stills, sometimes the magic comes from something that's not planned either.

And you're flexible. You stay flexible in the changes that is happening through your talent and models through, oh, let's try this. Sometimes a client will chime in, be like, can we try this and see how it works out. And you're not sticking to the schedule, but you're being like, okay, I'm open to this shot and let's just see how it goes.

And I think that's always important, being flexible, being creative and leaning towards what your client really wants. 'Cause sometimes they don't automatically know what they want. They have an idea and you're there to guide them and help them getting the best version of their product, whatever product it may be, food, beverage, anything that is for advertisement.

In marketing, you want the best version, and that's how you're gonna [00:26:00] keep getting hired is always putting them first, but also staying creative, knowing what's out there, not copying someone else's style, but being like, okay, I haven't seen the client use this kind of method. Let's try it and see how they feel.

Give three options, combine one with your idea, another one with their idea, and then a combination of their idea and your idea.

Mica: Oh, I like that a lot. And I like the idea of like being an a creative person or just a curious person. I definitely say that photographers need to be open and go, let's give it a shot or let's try it out.

And if you don't like it, you don't have to do it anymore. You mentioned that you love solving problems creatively, especially when you're in an environment where your ideas are truly valued. And when you're in an environment, like in a photo shoot, it is a high, it [00:27:00] can be a high pressure situation, and you do have to solve problems really fast and you have to think on your toes.

I mean like,, my background in theater prepared me for being a photographer on a commercial set. I do not freak out when things go wrong. I feel like I just zone in and I'm like, okay, let's do this. Theaters taught me that anything that can go wrong will go wrong. And so you have to like think on the spot of like, how am I gonna solve this problem in front of all these people and not have them know that something is going wrong?

And I feel like that makes me a creative problem solver. So in your eyes, what makes someone a strong creative problem solver? What ticks on boxes should they possess on like a mental, or what ticks should they possess on a mental checklist for solving problems?

Naomi: Ooh, a mental checklist. Well, I have a lot of tools that help me solve problems.

So I always bring as much as I can to set. Like, I feel like I bring half my life with me on a job [00:28:00] because I always think, well, what if I need this? What if I need that? I have it, whether I use it or not. It's a part of my kit. And whether or not the, like there is a kit fee for every stylist. There's a kit fee for photographers, there's a kit fee, your equipment.

So I always try to bring as much as I can. With stylist, I have a lot of tools. I make sure I have a cutting board. I have various knives. I have various tweezer sizes and length sizes. I have pins and was it toothpicks? Although I prefer the pins because they really can hold the structure of the food from sinking too much.

You also want various bowl sizes, so if you know that the food isn't going to be interactive too much, like let's just say you're dressing a salad and no one's touching it, you don't want that salad to sink in. You want a cup that will fit into your hero bowl to be in the center of it, and then you can put the salad on there.

The other most common tool I use [00:29:00] is either masa or instant potatoes, creating the structure and not letting it sink in. So there's always gonna be different problems when it comes to food with art, direction and design. When I'm on set, I make sure I have various tools, assorted tape. My knowledge on adhesive is so wide, I won't get into it, but knowing how to solve anything through adhesive, through like for food styling, I have always been asked for dulling spray and fishing line that I just keep it on me now because it's so commonly requests that I'm like, if I have it, I need it.

And as well as making sure you have different ways to cut things such as scissors, or I also have a classic box knife, or also have a pocket knife. There's different ways to cut things as well. You have a utility, scissors on top of your food grade, scissors, [00:30:00] and you always have gloves if you're going to ever try to sell as much in front of people.

You wanna wear gloves, especially if you know that your talent is going to be eating. But you also have to ask your production, your AD or your client. Is the talent ever gonna be eating anything? If they say no, be mindful of it, but also be prepared. They might eat it on camera as a backup shot, or at the end of the day they did all of their shots and they wanna try this shot that wasn't discussed.

So you're gonna have to just be flexible. So yeah, I put everything in clear bins for myself as I can. I have everything properly labeled and that helps me find things quickly. Or if I hire assistant that I'm not completely familiar with and they don't know my kit, that everything is properly labeled. So I would say that's very helpful of solving any problem.

You know where it is, you know how to describe it to your assistant, to your team. If you need [00:31:00] help with anything mentally, to stay alert and to problem solve quickly. It is by experience, but it's also a by sense of urgency, paying attention. Looking around listening, making sure you know everyone's at least first name, what they do and how can they help you solve the problem.

As much as how can you don't always try to do everything yourself. If you need assistance, speak. If you are worried about something safety wise, speak like don't hold it in. Don't be mean about it. Just being like, Hey, you pulled the AD aside, the assistant director, and be like, Hey, I just want you to be mindful of this.

Just suggesting if the food might be too hot or you know, there will be a flame exposed when it comes to one of my torches, torching, some of the food, things of that nature. There are things that you do need to be mindful of and that you communicate thoroughly so [00:32:00] everyone around you knows, and they're not stunned when they see you solving a problem.

And sometimes you just have to think on your feet. I would say the reason why I can solve problems quite quickly is just by experience and also keeping track of what works, writing it down and at the end of the shoot, analyze and debrief for yourself how it went. Understand like, oh, I did do this really well.

Or maybe at the end of the job you can also ask like, hey, you know, like what was the day like? I'm sure it was wild and crazy. And if you hear other people saying, you did a great job, or on X, Y, and Z, be mindful of it and try to bring it onto the next job.

Mica: Oh man.

Naomi: Never take criticism badly. Like if someone's criticizing you positive or negative, take it in and seeing what can you do to be the best version of you professionally.

Mica: Ah. I love, love that so much. [00:33:00] Have there ever been moments where you reflected on a shoot or anything that happened and went, I could have done that a little bit better. How did you push past that?

Naomi: I mean, I'm always very hard on myself, so I'm always going to be like, oh, I need to do better. Whether the shoot went well or not, I always put myself up here and I'm be like, I want to be that best version of me.

And I know I could sometimes could have done better. Maybe I needed to be more organized. Maybe I needed to be more outspoken. Maybe I should have sent out an email of more of a breakdown of the shots. Sometimes when you get a breakdown of the shot list from the director, the DP, or even the photographers, they don't always stick to it, and then it's kind of like, oh, are we winging it now and we're not sticking to a structure.

I like structure, it does help, but that's not always gonna be the [00:34:00] case. There are more than 90% of my job. They don't always stick to the structure that was already created because of time, because of talent, because of location, or because of sunlight or rain. Anything could happen that could interfere with the shoot.

I would say in general, some of the jobs I've done are really hard, especially now when I'm dealing with more high-end clients. More high end the client and the more stressful it will be with more people involved that you have to delegate to. Like I just did an ISO peer job and that brand hasn't worked with a lot of agencies yet.

The agency itself was great, but I would say overall it was challenging because I think maybe the client wasn't fully familiar of how everything works. So that was a little bit of a challenge. But also I would say our location was a little bit challenging on my end. Maybe my styling [00:35:00] wasn't that close to the main shooting area.

That was another challenge. Also, meeting everyone first time, and I was completely unfamiliar with all the team and I've never worked with any of these people. But granted there were a lot of jobs that are still new, but I wasn't in any meetings. I only had one point of contact and that was also unusual for me.

Because like I felt need to ask more questions and I felt like my one appointed in contact wasn't really answering them. And I would say that was the most challenging part because I was between my agency who got the job for me and then their agency on top of the production company, on top of the brand.

There was just moving parts to this. And I didn't wanna go over my agency by trying to reach out to these people. So I didn't. But when I got on location, it was chaotic. It [00:36:00] was very chaotic. It was, they did not get every shot that they wanted. I sometimes felt stuck not being able to solve the problem properly.

And then my agency debriefed me at the end of the shoot asking how can they improve? And I gave them a whole list of things that I would be like, well, next time when someone approaches you, these are the questions that need to be asked. And if they can't answer them, like we have to keep that in mind that it's going to be chaos if they can't answer even these first 10 questions.

And that means they don't have a clear vision. And then we also know that they're gonna be also very difficult to work with.

Mica: Oh man. Something you said earlier that needs highlighting is you said speak up, speak up, speak up respectfully, but speak up. What are questions that a food stylist, prop stylist should ask their photographer or their agent before walking into a shoot to help them [00:37:00] be better prepared for something?

Like three questions that they should ask.

Naomi: Oh, three questions. Oh man.

Mica: Yeah, 'cause I know there's a lot of questions. So let's Ooh to three. I think three would be a good, good starting point.

Naomi: So if you are any sort of stylist, whether hair, makeup, props, food, our direction, you want to ask right away what is your day rate?

Is it a 10 hour day or is it a 12 hour day? You need to know. 'Cause generally commercially it's 10 hours. And for film and television it's more so 12. But there are also with contracts, like for my agency that represents me, anything over 10 is now OT and most shoots usually go past 10. On average, I would say the most common number is 12 to 13, including the wrap out at the end of the shoot.

So what is your day rate and do you get OT? That's a good thing that you need to know. The other thing is, [00:38:00] has the locations been secure and is there anything I need to be mindful of when I arrive and where will I be placed? Sometimes you won't always know where you'll be placed and you'll know on the day of, and that's okay.

But for a couple of my jobs, I knew I needed six tables. I'm styling the whole day. I need a station where I'm gonna put my food and equipment. I need a table to where I'm gonna put all the produce at least two to three tables of the produce on top of I'm handling the product. So that's at least two more tables on just the client's product alone laid out.

So when they come over, they can look at everything. You always wanna consider, where will I be placed? Will there be tables provided? I need to know these things.

Mica: I mean, those are, that seems legitimate to me. Is there overtime? What's the day rate gonna be? How long is the day gonna be? Where are you gonna put me?

Put me in a dark dungeon in a corner where I have to run three miles to get to set, or am I gonna be [00:39:00] like right there, you know?

Naomi: Yeah. And I try to opt for being as close as possible to our main area where we're shooting, and I heavily pushed for it.

Mica: You mentioned that your photography background gave you a deep understanding of texture and color and composition.

How does that knowledge show up when you're styling food? Walk us through how you see a plate before it gets to set.

Naomi: So on bigger shoots, specifically, like big campaign shoots for multi-brand national or international, I'm working with various departments. If I'm working with a prop stylist and I'm the food stylist, I first ask them what is our hero plate gonna be?

How many people will be present in this composition? And then I'm dressing for. The hero side. If there's a hero side on the plate, I consider it. But I also try to [00:40:00] be mindful that I dress one 20 of an angle. Occasionally the director will tell me that it will be 360, and when I know it's 360, I have to allocate how long it's gonna take me to style this plate of food.

And that usually sometimes doubles the amount of time, depending on how many plates I need to dress for an entire spread of food. For the composition, for a beauty shot, singular plate, it's not gonna be as bad. But it also depends on the type of food. Burgers and sandwiches do take longer. Pasta, maybe not as long salads, the quickest one.

Salads are probably ones for me. Any sort of bite sized snacks that's super quick, I think I can style it pretty quickly. Much more than like a burger or sandwich that has a lot more textures and layers. I've done Gordon Seafood for two years now with a company local to Atlanta. And so when you [00:41:00] go to Costco or Target all of the Gordon Seafood, like I styled every single one.

So in five days, that was 192 shots. Oh my gosh. Oh, believe me, my brain hurt because I had to do between 14, 12 to 14 products in a day. Tabletop. Wow. In 12 hours, two prep days was helpful to see the product, see how it's supposed to look, but luckily with this product, with court and seafood for example, they wanted it to feel like families can buy their product.

Their main clientele is family. So with this product in particular. I had to do more recipe development and I was so thrilled because I love creating recipes. They gave me some inspirations on photos they would like to create, but for my styling, I essentially just was like, all right, let's see what's at the store.[00:42:00]

Let's see what's in season. 'cause we were styling in the winter, and I had to consider that this is going to be year round. This is gonna be shown year round. So I have to really like, all right, what will kids eat? And I had to ask them that. All right, what's your most popular vegetable styled with your fish sticks?

What do you like in your composition? Let's not just go for basic broccoli or like peas and carrots. What other vegetables should we consider depending on where it shot? The last thing I did is they just got a contract with Sam's Club. Their Sam's Club audience is entirely different from Costco or Target.

So I have to consider are where are you gonna be placed? Do you partner with other brands? What food should we consider since it's frozen food? 'cause Gordon's is all frozen, how do we make this the best it can be? And the hardest thing about that product was each item for [00:43:00] all the seafood is I had to make it the flakes of the fish.

All the packaging, there's flakes that you see of the fish and I had to take all these fish sticks apart and find the perfect flakes and insert them into the fish sticks. And I did that to every single product and making it like beautiful. So yes, that was probably pretty hard. So there's a lot to do with different clients.

Each client is gonna be different with a different type of challenge. How long does it take? It just varies depending on the food. And you also have to consider who you're working with. Are you working with prop stylists, an art director, a production designer? How close can you get to the director? Will they know the answer?

If they don't know the answer, then you will go to the client. But I have to respect the hierarchy. I don't always go to the client and I always go to the director or the photographer first to see if they know the [00:44:00] answer. And sometimes they'll pull me over with them and we all have a conversation together of how certain things will be presented.

Compositionally lighting their texture of what they prefer or don't prefer, and of also color, making sure the color balances considering My favorite class in college was color theory. Really knowing your balance of color, knowing those hues and what is natural, what are colors that we don't wanna associate with food, and what colors will really help.

Pop reds are always a great one. Those bright greens for vegetables that have been blanched is really nice texture. With gorton, there was always breading different kinds of breading. There's actually four types of breading with gorton, so we have to really show texture in the food, and you also want it to feel mouthwatering.

That is the most common thing with all the compositions I work with is, do you [00:45:00] wanna drink this product? Do you wanna eat this product? If that's yes to both, you did a great job and you're asking to keep working on like, would you want to have this? Does it feel like you wanna grab that drink and drink it immediately?

Does it look so appetizing that you know people will love it? You keep styling and styling and working with it, but also being mindful on time. So I always carry my watch with me and also a backup charger just in case anything happens and always watching the clock very closely. So if I tell the assistant director that I'm gonna style this in 10 minutes, try to style it right under 10 minutes and that would be great.

And then they can take the shot and move on to the next thing.

Mica: Mm. I love that so much. And something you said earlier that I felt like was really good to point out is just really paying attention to the small details. And that has taught me to like be really mindful about when I'm creating photos, [00:46:00] when I'm working with a stylist, what ingredients are they using when I'm working with a prop stylist, what colors are they incorporating?

So I love that you highlighted that. I have two more questions that I wanna ask you. I feel like this next question you'll, you'll really like in the beginning when I first started out, I had one camera. I had one 50 millimeter. I thought years from now I would have all of this equipment, all of this crap, all this stuff.

And in reality I have two lenses and then anything else I need, I rent out. I've spent my money on shit that I did not need. My question for you is if you had $150 to start a brand new styling kit from scratch, what would you buy first? What essentials are like worth the splurge? What can you DIY and find on the cheap?

If you had $150 and you're starting out,

Naomi: Woo. That is hard one. I have been there. Okay, so this is my approach. [00:47:00] You create a spreadsheet of what is more important for you. And then you ask your friends and family for your birthdays and your Christmas presents, what you really want that you can't get on your own.

I'm all for used equipment. Sometimes I'll raid goodwill and other thrift stores of tools. Those are great places to find some really amazing tools for my dinky little small hands. I love small tools. I love small tools. They are fun. They are very useful. The first thing I would say for food styling is having a good set of food tweezers that you exclusively only use for food and nothing else.

Take care of it, make sure it's good quality. Mine came off of Amazon and I had an array of different types of tools. You can get the metallic kind. I would prefer just stainless steel. Don't try to get things that have too much [00:48:00] pattern on them. Stainless steel is great and then maybe. Create something at the top that's a signature to your kit.

Maybe have something pink or blue like a tape at the back of it. You can start with something very simple before you try to brand your whole kit and make sure nothing walks away all of a sudden when you're working. But yeah, tweezers, create a list of things that you want. Always create our wishlist and see if you really need it and maybe see how someone else is using it.

The other thing is if you don't have time to get stainless steel pins or craft pins, that will help hold up structure. Just use toothpicks for now. Toothpicks is affordable and cheap. It's very helpful. The other thing is always have something that holds structure. If you can't use pins or maybe also toothpicks might not always work for every food.

So the next thing is instant potato or masa the Masa powder that makes [00:49:00] tortillas either one of those work. Add a little bit of water, bring a plastic bowl with you. Dollar Store is great. Dollar Store is great for a lot of things. I always opt for bowls and plates that are not breakable. So either it's enamel, stainless steel, or plastic, and that's okay.

You can start off with that. Another goodwill find, if you wanna go through goodwill and get a couple things that might work for you. Of course plastic does wear down and tear, but you have to build up how you're gonna treat your equipment before you wanna go into anything expensive. I haven't talked about knives.

Knives are a little tricky. If you are going to buy knives, what I would recommend is get a knife sharpener, a cheap knife. If you go to someone to sharpen it, you can sharpen a cheap knife and make it work. Absolutely. If you're having a hard time getting expensive Knives and knives are great for food stylists, [00:50:00] but of course not everyone can invest in knives right off the bat.

Not even chefs can do that when they are first coming out of school because it's usually generally a gift. So I would say find some cheap knives and get them sharpened and try to sharpen them weekly if you're using it that often. And that keeps your knives sharp. Always have gloves. I don't like the powder in my gloves, so I just do vinyl gloves.

I order those off of Amazon. Or you can also find them in chef stores around where you are. Amazon's best because usually I just do the overnight gloves if I need it right away. Little eye eyedropper, plastic eyedrops, four sauces. That's also very inexpensive. And let's see, one other thing. Oh, an apron.

You want an apron? You don't want food all over your clothes. I would say that's right out the max. You probably have a little bit more room. Honestly, if you're going through Dollar Store and Goodwill.

Mica: Oh, I love the Dollar Store. The Dollar Tree, dollar Store Store. [00:51:00] That's like, that's my haunts.

Naomi: Yeah, the Dollar Store can get half of your kit right there.

You can get there. You can get a lot of hand tools, just like kitchen tools there and work with what you have before you upgrade to something else. 'cause you wanna know how you're gonna treat your equipment before you get something expensive.

Mica: Mm-hmm. I know that's right. I use, I mean, honestly, I use the Dollar Tree to buy candy before I go to a movie theater because I ain't paying $6 for a bag of m and ms I could give for a dollar A Dollar Tree.

Naomi: Exactly.

Mica: Is there a tool in your kit? Maybe it's not in the kit anymore, but is there a tool that you've ever bought that you thought would be useful and that it turned out to be the most useless thing you ever bought?

Naomi: Hmm. May. Not for my kit, but more personal use. Most things I buy for my kit. I have grown my kit because of the mentors I had and how they use it.[00:52:00]

So now in my kit, there isn't much that I don't use. There are things I use more often, but everything that's in my kit now from fishing line, I definitely use that. All the different powders, I keep assorted, aspired, seasonings. Technically they're not really expired, like salt and pepper don't really expire, so I always have that hanging out in my kid too.

Also banquet to darken our seasoned meat. It's similar to soy sauce, but you can paint it and make it darker, you know, in areas of the meat that you want it to look more seasoned. I always have a spray oil Pam. I just use classic Pam that makes all of your food glisten. Um, Pam's also an expensive, but you can also do off brand.

You don't have to use Pam. I use Pam 'cause I like it, but there is some difference with the cheaper oils. You don't want it to have a cast, like you just want it to have a sheen where [00:53:00] lighting is gonna capture some of the food and make it feel like it just came out of the oven even though it didn't. And a spray bottle, I forgot my good old various spray bottle.

I have four. The most common one is a misting spray, the one that you use in your hair for like curls and stuff that you can get on Amazon and you missed. You missed your fruit, you missed your salad. You miss glassware. You miss. Your product when it comes to Coca-Cola product or anything that's a drink that's refreshing or any cold juice that I've used, I've always missed the bottles or the glasses that they're in to make it feel, oh, it just came.

It's like beautiful condensation with texture and you have to consider that. The items that I had at home that I feel I didn't love is I don't really use the avocado like I bought it, like this avocado tool. I didn't use it. I still use a knife, a classic butter knife, [00:54:00] and then I use a sharper knife to get the pit out.

Other than that, I don't use any of the avocado tools that are out there. Everyone says it makes your life easier here. That is not true for me.

Mica: There are a bunch of liars.

Naomi: Any tool that gets rid of pits, I've bought them. I don't use them.

Mica: Those tools are so useless, that pit thing. I just watched a TikTok video of someone chop putting the knife.

They did the little in the pit and then took it out and I was like, oh, wow. I don't need a tool for that. I got a knife for that.

Naomi: Oh, I just thought of something else that's very important for food styling kit.

Mica: Oh, please share.

Naomi: So citric acid powder, the ones that you use for pickling to help prevent bananas from browning or apples from browning when they're sliced, even avocados.

Put that powder, the, the mixture [00:55:00] of powder and water. And I also dunk all of the berries. All berries go in this citric acid powder for at least a few minutes, and you take it out, you dry it, and then it already, for the shoot, and it doesn't brown, it doesn't wilt. It's fine.

Mica: Oh my God. That is life changing.

Naomi: Yeah. Secretary Aspen powder is definitely something that I use very, very often and it's used very often in all shoes that I do.

Mica: Oh man. Where do you get that? I mean, you can get it off of Amazon, right? Or is it sold in grocery stores?

Naomi: Yeah. Yeah. You can get it at any grocery store, usually where the mason jars are.

It's very helpful for anything that you don't want to brown too quickly, and that's how you can also keep your guac quite vibrant as well, is to add a little bit of the citric acid powder with the, with it helps keep it from browning because it's really preventing oxidation.

Mica: Oh man. Dang. We talking [00:56:00] about the soul and education today.

I freaking love this. So I know I said I had two questions that I asked it to, but I actually have one more these days. With the creative outlets that you have, the careers that you have. What's calling to you the loudest? What are you excited about working on these days?

Naomi: Hmm. Well, I always love commercials because I think my brain from college has wired me for advertisement and marketing, which also will never die in our world.

There's always something to sell. There's always a product to sell. There's always food to sell. No one wants to see fake food. We already seen fake food in the eighties and nineties. People want more natural ingredients. People don't want this fake stuff that we're seeing out there. Like people ask me all the time, is a food fake?

To a degree, yes. I wouldn't eat it if it's been sitting out for eight hours on a camera

Mica: and like a [00:57:00] thousand Hands have touched it, and you're like.

Naomi: Don't touch it.

Mica: You don't want that.

Naomi: My favorite thing to create on-camera smoothies is also, once again, instant potato with like matcha powder in a blender and you make this beautiful looking icy smoothie and then you spray the glass with your spritzer and it looks beautiful.

Or you know, I also use like the bubble tea powders. Like you can do those instant bubble tea kits that you can find in the store, and I use the powder and I add it to my mashed potatoes to create vibrant smoothies. I did that for the Bimbo commercial with the famous soccer players is primarily for the Hispanic market, but I created all these beautiful drinks for this commercial.

But what I'm excited for, I've always been excited about commercials, but I mean, of course I would like to do more movies of food styling for more movies. I've done a few and I love them. It's a different beast, [00:58:00] but also working on my own shoots with photographers, creating more lifestyle shoots, challenging myself on creating food that I haven't gotten a chance to play with enough.

Like I wanna learn more about fake ice cream and making that stunning,

Mica: oh my God, that sounds like so much fun.

Naomi: Yeah. Looking at the CarVal shoots and their social media, I really love it. I think it's beautiful. I'm friends with one of the leading stylists for that brand, and I love her design. I'm like, okay.

She has spent a while learning fake ice cream. That is something that I feel like I can learn, learn. I've done fake cakes. I've done a lot of fake cakes with Shaq. I created three fake cakes, but then there was one section, which it was all real, but the whole thing was real icing, so it was like styrofoam.

Covered with real icing and then decorated. And then I had these three plates of cake that he was trying on camera, the eye. [00:59:00] I made eight cakes the night before the shoot for the client carnival cruise.

Mica: Wow. That is so cool.

Naomi: Yeah. Yeah. And Shaq actually ate my cakes and loved it, and I was like, yes, he enjoyed the cakes and I passed out all the cakes at the end of the shoot because like cake is fine.

It can sit out a little longer than other foods. And like, who doesn't like cake?

Mica: I think that's so cool that Shaq ate the cakes. And what did he think? Did he liked them? Right? I'm assuming he liked them.

Naomi: Yeah, you will see if you go to the Instagram and I think Facebook and Twitter, they're all shown on there.

'cause he was an officiant, so you could get married by the shack at CarVal Cruise. 'cause he's an officiant and it's very interesting. So if you ever come across that online, I, I did those takes on there.

Mica: Oh my gosh. All right. Gonna tell my husband, we're gonna renew our vows and [01:00:00] Shaq is gonna be the one to officiate it.

My very, very, very, very, very, very last question for you is, when you look at all the past that you've walked so far with photography, with styling, directing all of the parts that you've poured yourself into them, what do you want people to feel, remember, or take with them after working with you or simply just experiencing your work?

Naomi: I want them to always take that. I love collaborating. I love creative projects and I'm always down for trying something new. Maybe creating a spec commercial that we pitch to a brand I am down for creating. I enjoy this so much. I feel like this is what I love doing. I love styling. I love creating something out, nothing and just figuring it out.

The best shoe sometimes [01:01:00] comes with friends that are trying to get a client and we create something so beautiful. Even if the client didn't like it, we still created something very beautiful that we can put on our portfolio. So that's why I say stay creative. If you wanna do something, go and learn it. Go and do it.

And even if it doesn't work out, that's okay. You still learned it, you still figured it out, and you're gonna keep moving forward and building your portfolio. And I want people to know that you can reach out to me anytime. I love answering questions and I love sharing my knowledge because my mentors shared their knowledge with me.

There's nothing that I know that you can't discover on your own. There is nothing crazy out there. It's just more about doing it repetitively and see what works for you. Um, like I said, there's always more than one solution to a problem, so yeah.

Mica: Mm. I mean, you're a hundred percent right that this industry continues [01:02:00] because of the people who are working it are passing down what they've learned and onto the next generation, the next incoming group of people.

Thank you so very much for being a guest on this show. Where can the listeners connect with you and get their soul filled through you? Where can they find you?

Naomi: Oh, thank you so much for having me as well. You can reach out to me on my website at. Food by naomi.com or you can just DM me on Instagram too.

It's at food styling by Naomi on Instagram. Yeah, I'm always happy to answer questions and I love helping out stylists figure out their way in this world. Keep pushing on. Sometimes you're going to be stuck in a moment where creativity isn't quite there and that's okay. Like go do something else for a minute and then come back to what you're trying to figure out and then you'll see it.

You'll see, I promise you, sometimes your brain just needs [01:03:00] to take a break and then you can come back to what you need to figure out. Create. Being creative is exhausting to a degree, but it's also very fulfilling when people love what you do. And so I say to all the creatives, never give up on yourself 'cause you are your own cheerleader.

You gotta keep pushing yourself. Try something new, keep learning, and please like contact me anytime. Yeah. Thank you.

Mica: This episode is written and produced by me, your host, Mica McCook. Like this episode, give us a five star review on Apple Podcast and subscribe to the Savory Shot wherever you get your podcast.

Or follow me your host, Mica McCook, on Instagram at Mica dot McCook. Or you can follow the podcast on Instagram at a Savory Shot podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or would like to be featured on the show, email us at [01:04:00] podcast@thesavoryshot.com.

Welcome to the 69th episode of the Savory Shot, the podcast where we talk about the art and soul of food photography. I'm your host with the most Mica McCook. I'm a food photographer out here in Austin, Texas where the barbecue is smoking. The light's got attitude, and I'm just out here powered by espresso shots and last minute miracles.

Before we jump into today's delicious episode, I got to start the show off by saying thank you to my day ones, my ride, or dies. The ones who have been here since episode one dropped. Y'all are the secret sauce, the [01:05:00] sparkle, and the reason I keep showing up with the mic and a messy heart. Y'all are the wheels that keep this show rolling.

Okay, that was corny. I'm sorry. I'm gonna blame it on the coffee. I'm full of espresso this morning. So, uh, brace yourself.

Feel free to email me, send me a dm. I'm always open to suggestions on how to make this a better show for you. Alright, y'all let's talk about today's guest. I'm joined by the one and only Naomi Smith. Naomi is an art director, food stylist, prop stylist, film director. Basically, if it's creative and complicated, Naomi's doing it and making it look effortless.

Let me tell y'all something about this episode. This was a fun one. I laughed so much in this interview, but what I loved most was how real we got about what it's like to lead a creative career when you are burnt out, stretched thin, and questioning. What the heck [01:07:00] you're doing with your life. Naomi opens up about saying yes to stuff that didn't serve her.

We talk about why rest is part of the work, even when your to-do list says otherwise. Have any of y'all put rest in your task list? I haven't. She talks about how directing her own shoots changed everything. My favorite part, we talked about the [01:08:00] deep soulful connection between food and healing and what unfolds when you quit shrinking, quit people pleasing, and finally, let your voice take up the space it's been begging for.

I'm excited to get this show started. I don't think there's anything left to say. If you're not hooked by this point, then boo. I don't know what to tell you, but I will say, before we get into all that juicy goodness, grab your coffee, a pen and paper, and let's start the show. Well, welcome to the Savory Shot, a biweekly show about the art and soul of working and food photography.

I'm your host, Mica McCook. Every other Wednesday I sit down to chat with professionals in the industry. So that you feast on only the best tips and strategies in the business. [01:09:00] Alright, t, let's get started.

Naomi, thank you so, so much for coming on the show on the Savory shot. I'm so excited to have you here. So welcome to what I like to call the Hot Mess Express.

Naomi: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited about this conversation.

Mica: Oh man, I am too. I mean, right before we hit the record button, I was like, oh man, I could talk to you all day.

Like, this is like cafe style. Let's go have lunch and we're gonna be here. We're gonna close out the restaurant and talk all the fun stuff. But I wanna jump right into this. You are. The literal definition of a multi creative, like you've got so many hats on and I love it. But you started out with the BFA in photography and you are now film director, art director.[01:10:00]

How did these worlds of photography, styling and directing how do each fit in your life at this moment?

And when I graduated from college, I really didn't know what to do. So I was one of those people that cold called a lot. And I also kept track of who I was cold calling and whether people would give me a [01:11:00] chance. So I was a photo assistant for up to six years while I was a photo assistant, I was PAing reality shows and TV shows on top.

And I did shoot a lot back then with just various events. Mostly my bread and butter was events, but I really wanted to shoot food. And I learned really quickly in Atlanta, there weren't a lot of people doing that. And those that w did do it did it really well, and there wasn't really room for more food photographers back in [01:12:00] 2013.

Like you just didn't think of it. Social media was not heavily used at that time, and restaurants probably only worked with people they knew or that was referred to them. So I knew that already it was gonna be very hard. So I started reaching out to food stylists that I was coming across on LinkedIn, or if I Googled them, food stylists that were just around.

And I really loved it. But it was hard because like my main food stylist I worked with was Charlene Perry. During that time, I [01:13:00] exclusively, mostly worked for her for styling, and I never grew outside of her. And when she got sick, I wasn't fully developed yet. And then when she had to take a leave for up to two years, I didn't know what to do with myself.

And so I just kept using my contacts and, and reaching people out was like, Hey, if you need anyone, I'm down to collaborate. If you need someone for a shoot, I'm down [01:14:00] to photos assist, I'm down to pa. I PA'd six different departments. This learning because like when you're straight out of college, you know some things, but you also don't know the real world.

And I learned really fast. In order for me to build up something, I had to learn from professionals and I had to give the chance to. Not be the know-it-all, but to absorb what I was learning on a job and hope and prayed that people liked my personality, liked who I was, and kept bringing me on to other things.

And that's how I really developed. So most of what I was doing was all by referrals. And this is the network. When you're in the editorial world, the commercial world, the film world, everything is a people's relationship. And you have to be building those relationships, keep communication, and also be on your best behavior, stay professional the entire time because anything you do, [01:15:00] people will remember you, whether good or bad, and you wanna keep getting jobs.

So you wanna also always be open, but it's absolutely okay if you don't get along with everyone.

Mica: Oh yeah, for sure. And something you mentioned earlier that I just had to snap my fingers to is, is not. Having all of your eggs in one basket. If the pandemic taught me anything, it was to have a backup plan for the backup plan and just to have my finger in a couple of other projects, other couple of ways of bringing in an income in case this doesn't work.

How do you stay open to creative opportunities that come your way without feeling burned out or without losing focus on the opportunities that you're already currently working on?

Naomi: That is a very good question and that is something I recently learned and the answer is when I was younger I [01:16:00] got burnt out a lot.

'cause I wanted opportunity. I was constantly seeking it. I would never let myself breathe. But now being 35 and being more understanding of the world opportunities. I think what taught me how to not burn myself out was the pandemic. Taking a step back, appreciating what you have, your world, your hobbies, seeing your friends and family, and knowing where your support network is.

Also, I think for me, I needed therapy and I'm not sure if everyone needs therapy, but for me, I needed someone that I could talk to so I wouldn't put it on my friends or family or loved ones, and I felt that was a very healthy habit. I created daily exercise, kept me from really being pushed over as well, and also keeping my body strong, staying hydrated.

I [01:17:00] am all about using food to nurture my body and I definitely educated myself on this. I really am very mindful of what I put in my body and what I don't eat when I'm working. And what I can eat when I'm not working. I also have taken away a lot of foods in my life that cause me to have brain fog. Like for example, my body doesn't really like fried food.

That is something that I felt like I needed to do. And when I was in college, I drank a lot of coffee, like a lot of coffee. I think I destroyed my body like eight to [01:18:00] 10 cups a day for four years.

Mica: Wow.

Naomi: Yeah. Like that was not healthy. I don't recommend that to anybody.

Mica: I mean, I was right up there with you and I was a heavy smoker, so.

Creative fields just kind of land in those kinds of vices

Naomi: and so I took away coffee, caffeine, and I learned from my personality and my body and mindset. If I wanted to stay focused and organized, I needed to find another way to help me focus, not rely on coffee. I still drink caffeine to a degree. It's green teas primarily, but not every day and not even past four cups in a day.

I'm gonna tell you that does keep you energized 100%. So, yeah, I retrained my body during the pandemic, and I'm the healthiest version of me now, and I stopped burning out as much because I started taking care of myself and being mindful of food, exercise, hydration. And if I know that I'm gonna have a busy week, I try not to stack up on too much in my schedule, and I know I need time to decompress in the evening.

Let's get together and work and collaborate. And I think that's it. Like don't ever think like you won't have this opportunity again. I think when I was younger I always [01:20:00] thought that this opportunity will never come and I like really like made it too dramatic and really it wasn't that.

Mica: No, I mean you're dead on.

And yeah man, I'm right there with you. I love that so much. And I think this is a good [01:21:00] segue into my next question. As creatives, we often need different outlets to like feed different parts of like who we are. What creative outlets other than the styling and directing photography nourish you? And what part of Naomi do they each light up?

It's a beautiful country. Try to explore more of Denmark than just Copenhagen. We went to two cities, Copenhagen and Aarhus and then we took a plane to Amsterdam and that was a short trip of seven, seven or eight days, like including travel days. So that was really nice. Traveling to [01:22:00] me definitely feeds my soul.

Though we can't do it often when I am traveling, no matter where I go, I wanna explore not only the food that's in that country, but the culture and then the art history. What feeds my soul is always being curious. And even in Atlanta here when there's new exhibitions, one of my goals around the country, if the country has a botanical garden.

Some of the places that I've traveled, I think I really got that from my mom. 'cause my mom used to take me to see, visit her [01:23:00] friends in New York or California. She had friends in Toronto and I had family in Hong Kong. So I was lucky that I got a chance to experience Hong Kong when I was younger. I had visited there eight times in my life.

Sure. It's very different now 'cause I haven't visited Hong Kong in a long time, but I think last time I went was. 2016, so that was the last time I was in Hong Kong. It's a big metropolis city, so it's constantly changing, so I might not even recognize it when I go back. What I also like to do if it's not involving like money is what I like to do at home is read.

Like knowing how things are done and knowing the differences between styling for camera and then styling and eating at home and cooking for yourself or cooking for your loved one. And I am naturally very curious person, avid learner. So if I don't know something, I'm gonna go out of my way to go and learn it.

Mica: Oh, I love that.

love that. Oh, that right there with the traveling that you do, I bet. Seeing like how other restaurants like present their dishes. What is the local produce like over there? Like I know all of that contributes to when you're on set and you're styling for a brand that's based in another country or based in another region of the country, like just having exposure to all of those different cultures, I feel like that's feeding into your career.

Am I right when I say that?

Naomi: Yes, you're absolutely right. Since I [01:25:00] have a degree that focused on advertisement and marketing, the first thing when a production company or an agency reaches out to me and they want my services. When it comes to food styling and prop styling, the first thing I ask is, do we have a color palette?

If the client says, we're rebranding, we don't wanna use anything that we had before. They'll send me photos of references and be like, this is not what we want to do, we want to do, and then they send me images like this. That's very, very helpful. I find that if any clients are listening, having more mood boards of the do's and don'ts and giving a more clear vision to your stylists, to your designers, to your production companies is very, very helpful because then we can be like, okay, I fully know we're gonna avoid this tone, this color, this composition.

We're gonna upscale it, elevate it, or make it more farm to table. Making it more connecting to the audience, you know, completely taking away that artificial look and making it feel more genuine. It's all about lighting and composition when it comes to editorial. Or even with social media, like I've done a lot of brands that [01:27:00] are more social media heavy now on their advertisements that they really push their product on various platforms.

And of course I've worked on major campaigns for certain brands and they're releasing a very specific time, probably also with a celebrity. So we'll probably see like how is it gonna be approached? Is there a dietary restriction with your celebrity? How long do we have them for? We have to be mindful of timing when we're in shoots.

Mica: Earlier you said something and I jumped and praised on it, but I do wanna touch on it again. About, if you don't know how to do something, you go out and learn it. For creatives who don't have that perspective or [01:28:00] operate from that perspective, what would you say to them to like try to change their mind, to adopt that perspective?

Naomi: Well, I would say there's always more than one way to do something. My methods might not work for everyone, but staying creative and curious is an important aspect of any career. If you wanna be successful, you wanna be promoted, you wanna keep moving up, you want a more diverse portfolio With better clients, you have to know what is, I hate this word, but what's trending, what's not trending anymore, and also not worry about who's looking at you.

'cause you don't [01:29:00] wanna work with someone that only wants to push it their way or only their way, and that's it. There's no way, like nobody wanna work with that because it's so rigid. And sometimes when you're on set, whether motion or stills, sometimes the magic comes from something that's not planned either.

And I think that's always important, being flexible, being creative and leaning towards what your client really wants. 'cause sometimes they don't automatically know what they want. They have an idea and you're there to guide them and help them getting the best version of their product, whatever product it may be, [01:30:00] food, beverage, anything that is for advertisement.

In marketing, you want the best version, and that's how you're gonna keep getting hired is always putting them first, but also staying creative, knowing what's out there, not copying someone else's style, but being like, okay, I haven't seen the client use this kind of method. Let's try it and see how they feel.

Give three options, combine one with your idea, another one with their idea, and then a combination of their idea and your idea.

And if you don't like it, you don't have to do it anymore. You mentioned that you love solving problems creatively, [01:31:00] especially when you're in an environment where your ideas are truly valued. And when you're in an environment, like in a photo shoot, it is a high, it can be a high pressure situation, and you do have to solve problems really fast and you have to think on your toes.

I mean like, my background in theater prepared me for being a photographer on a commercial set. I do not freak out when things go wrong. I feel like I just zone in and I'm like, okay, let's do this. Theaters taught me that anything that can go wrong will go wrong. And so you have to like think on the spot of like, how am I gonna solve this problem in front of all these people and not have them know that something is going wrong?

Naomi: Ooh, a mental checklist. Well, [01:32:00] I have a lot of tools that help me solve problems.

So I always bring as much as I can to set. Like, I feel like I bring half my life with me on a job because I always think, well, what if I need this? What if I need that? I have it, whether I use it or not. It's a part of my kit. And whether or not the, like there is a kit fee for every stylist. There's a kit fee for photographers, there's a kit fee, your equipment.

So I always try to bring as much as I can. With stylist I have a lot of tools. I make sure I have a cutting board. I have various knives. I have various tweezer sizes and length sizes. I have pins and was it toothpicks? Although I prefer the pins because they really can hold the structure of the food from sinking too much.

You also want various bowl sizes, so if you know that the food isn't going to be interactive too much, like let's just say you're dressing a salad and no one's touching it, you don't want that salad to sink in. You want a cup that will fit [01:33:00] into your hero bowl to be in the center of it, and then you can put the salad on there.

The other most common tool I use is either masa or instant potatoes, creating the structure and not letting it sink in. So there's always gonna be different problems when it comes to food with art, direction and design. When I'm on set, I make sure I have various tools, assorted tape. My knowledge on adhesive is so wide, I won't get into it, but knowing how to solve anything through adhesive, through like for food styling, I have always been asked for dulling spray and fishing line that I just keep it on me now because it's so commonly requests that I'm like, if I have it, I need it.

And as well as making sure you have different ways to cut things such as scissors, or I also have a classic box knife, or [01:34:00] also have a pocket knife. There's different ways to cut things as well. You have a utility, scissors on top of your food grade, scissors, and you always have gloves if you're going to ever try to sell as much in front of people.

So you're gonna have to just be flexible. So yeah, I put everything in clear bins for myself as I can. I have everything properly labeled and that helps me find things quickly. Or if I hire assistant that I'm not completely familiar with and they don't know my kit, that everything is properly labeled. So I [01:35:00] would say that's very helpful of solving any problem.

You know where it is, you know how to describe it to your assistant, to your team. If you need help with anything mentally, to stay alert and to problem solve quickly. It is by experience, but it's also a by sense of urgency, paying attention. Looking around listening, making sure you know everyone's at least first name, what they do and how can they help you solve the problem.

As much as how can you don't always try to do everything yourself. If you need assistance, speak. If you are worried about something safety wise, speak like don't hold it in. Don't be mean about it. Just being like, Hey, you pulled the ad aside, the assistant director, and be like, Hey, I just want you to be mindful of this.

Just suggesting if the food might be too hot or you know, there will be a flame exposed when it comes to one of my torches, torching, [01:36:00] some of the food, things of that nature. There are things that you do need to be mindful of and that you communicate thoroughly so everyone around you knows, and they're not stunned when they see you solving a problem.

And sometimes you just have to think on your feet. I would say the reason why I can solve problems quite quickly is just by experience and also keeping track of what works, writing it down and at the end of the shoot analyze and debrief for yourself how it went. Understand like, oh, I did do this really well.

Or maybe at the end of the job you can also ask like, Hey, you know, like what was the day like? I'm sure it was wild and crazy. And if you hear other people saying, you did a great job, or on X, Y, and Z, be mindful of it and try to bring it onto the next job.

Mica: Oh man.

Naomi: Never take criticism badly. Like if someone's criticizing you positive or negative, take it in and seeing [01:37:00] what can you do to be the best version of you professionally.

Mica: Ah. I love, love that so much. Have there ever been moments where you reflected on a shoot or anything that happened and went, I could have done that a little bit better. How did you push past that?

And I know I could sometimes could have done better. Maybe I needed to be more organized. Maybe I needed to be more outspoken. Maybe I should have sent out an email of more of a breakdown of the shots. Sometimes when you get a breakdown of the shot list from the director, the dp, or even the photographers, they don't always stick to it, and then it's kind of like, [01:38:00] oh, are we winging it now and we're not sticking to a structure.

I like structure, it does help, but that's not always gonna be the case. There are more than 90% of my job. They don't always stick to the structure that was already created because of time, because of talent, because of location, or because of sunlight or rain. Anything could happen that could interfere with the shoot.

The agency itself was great, but I would say overall it was challenging because I think maybe the client wasn't fully familiar of how everything works. So that [01:39:00] was a little bit of a challenge. But also I would say our location was a little bit challenging on my end. Maybe my styling wasn't that close to the main shooting area.

There was just moving parts to this. And I didn't [01:40:00] wanna go over my agency by trying to reach out to these people. So I didn't. But when I got on location, it was chaotic. It was very chaotic. It was, they did not get every shot that they wanted. I sometimes felt stuck not being able to solve the problem properly.

And that means they don't have a clear vision. And then we also know that they're gonna be also very difficult to work with.

Mica: Oh man. Something you said earlier that needs highlighting is you said Speak up, speak up, speak up respectfully, but speak up. What are questions [01:41:00] that a food stylist, prop stylist should ask their photographer or their agent before walking into a shoot to help them be better prepared for something?

Like three questions that they should ask.

Naomi: Oh, three questions. Oh man.

Mica: Yeah, 'cause I know there's a lot of questions. So let's Ooh to three. I think three would be a good, good starting point.

Naomi: So if you are any sort of stylist, whether hair, makeup, props, food, our direction, you want to ask right away what is your day rate?

Is it a 10 hour day or is it a 12 hour day? You need to know. 'cause generally commercially it's 10 hours. And for film and television it's more so 12. But there are also with contracts, like for my agency that represents me, anything over 10 is now ot and most shoots usually go past 10. On average, I would say the most common number is 12 to 13, including the wrap out [01:42:00] at the end of the shoot.

So what is your day rate and do you get ot? That's a good thing that you need to know. The other thing is, has the locations been secure and is there anything I need to be mindful of when I arrive and where will I be placed? Sometimes you won't always know where you'll be placed and you'll know on the day of, and that's okay.

So when they come over, they can look at everything. You always wanna consider, where will I be placed? Will there be tables provided? I need to know these things.

Mica: I mean, those are, that seems legitimate to me. Is there overtime? What's [01:43:00] the day rate gonna be? How long is the day gonna be? Where are you gonna put me?

Put me in a dark dungeon in a corner where I have to run three miles to get to set, or am I gonna be like right there, you know?

Naomi: Yeah. And I try to opt for being as close as possible to our main area where we're shooting, and I heavily pushed for it.

Mica: You mentioned that your photography background gave you a deep understanding of texture and color and composition.

How does that knowledge show up when you're styling food? Walk us through how you see a plate before it gets to set.

How many people will be present in this composition? And [01:44:00] then I'm dressing for. The hero side. If there's a hero side on the plate, I consider it. But I also try to be mindful that I dress one 20 of an angle. Occasionally the director will tell me that it will be 360, and when I know it's 360, I have to allocate how long it's gonna take me to style this plate of food.

Salads are probably ones for me. Any sort of bite sized snacks that's super quick, I think I can style it pretty quickly. Much more than like a burger or sandwich that has a lot more textures and [01:45:00] layers. I've done Gordon Seafood for two years now with a company local to Atlanta. And so when you go to Costco or Target all of the Gordon Seafood, like I styled every single one.

Their main clientele is family. So with this product in particular. I had to do more recipe development and I was so thrilled because I love creating recipes. They [01:46:00] gave me some inspirations on photos they would like to create, but for my styling, I essentially just was like, all right, let's see what's at the store.

So I have to consider are where are you gonna be placed? Do you partner with other brands? What food should we consider since it's frozen food? 'cause Gordon's is all frozen, how do [01:47:00] we make this the best it can be? And the hardest thing about that product was each item for all the seafood is I had to make it the flakes of the fish.

If they don't know the answer, then you will go to the client. But I [01:48:00] have to respect the hierarchy. I don't always go to the client and I always go to the director or the photographer first to see if they know the answer. And sometimes they'll pull me over with them and we all have a conversation together of how certain things will be presented.

That is the most common thing with all the compositions I work with is, do you wanna drink this product? Do you wanna eat this product? If that's yes to both, you did a great job and you're asking to keep working on like, would you want to have this? Does it feel like you wanna grab that drink and drink it immediately?

And then they can take the shot and move on to the next thing.

Mica: Mm. I love that so much. And something you said earlier that I felt like was really good to point out is just really [01:50:00] paying attention to the small details. And that has taught me to like be really mindful about when I'm creating photos, when I'm working with a stylist, what ingredients are they using when I'm working with a prop stylist, what colors are they incorporating?

If you had $150 and [01:51:00] you're starting out,

Naomi: woo. That is hard one. I have been there. Okay, so this is my approach. You create a spreadsheet of what is more important for you. And then you ask your friends and family for your birthdays and your Christmas presents, what you really want that you can't get on your own.

Take care of it, make sure it's good quality. Mine came off of Amazon and I had an array of different [01:52:00] types of tools. You can get the metallic kind. I would prefer just stainless steel. Don't try to get things that have too much pattern on them. Stainless steel is great and then maybe. Create something at the top that's a signature to your kit.

The other thing is if you don't have time to get stainless steel pins or craft pins, that will help hold up structure. Just use toothpicks for now. Toothpicks is affordable and cheap. It's very helpful. The other thing is always have something that holds structure. If you can't use pins or maybe [01:53:00] also toothpicks might not always work for every food.

So the next thing is instant potato or masa the Masa powder that makes tortillas either one of those work. Add a little bit of water, bring a plastic bowl with you. Dollar Store is great. Dollar Store is great for a lot of things. I always opt for bowls and plates that are not breakable. So either it's enamel, stainless steel, or plastic, and that's okay.

Knives are a little tricky. If you are going to buy knives, what I would recommend is get a knife sharpener, a cheap knife. If you go to someone to sharpen it, you can sharpen a [01:54:00] cheap knife and make it work. Absolutely. If you're having a hard time getting expensive Knives and knives are great for food stylists, but of course not everyone can invest in knives right off the bat.

You want an apron? You don't want food all over your clothes. I would say that's right out the max. [01:55:00] You probably have a little bit more room. Honestly, if you're going through Dollar Store and Goodwill.

Mica: Oh, I love the Dollar Store. The Dollar Tree, dollar Store Store. That's like, that's my haunts.

Naomi: Yeah, the Dollar Store can get half of your kit right there.

Naomi: Exactly.

Naomi: Hmm. May. Not for my kit, but more [01:56:00] personal use. Most things I buy for my kit. I have grown my kit because of the mentors I had and how they use it.

You don't have to use Pam. I use Pam 'cause I like [01:57:00] it, but there is some difference with the cheaper oils. You don't want it to have a cast, like you just want it to have a sheen where lighting is gonna capture some of the food and make it feel like it just came out of the oven even though it didn't. And a spray bottle, I forgot my good old various spray bottle.

It's like beautiful condensation with texture and you have to consider that. The items that I had at home that I feel I didn't love is I don't really use the [01:58:00] avocado like I bought it, like this avocado tool. I didn't use it. I still use a knife, a classic butter knife, and then I use a sharper knife to get the pit out.

Other than that, I don't use any of the avocado tools that are out there. Everyone says it makes your life easier here. That is not true for me.

Mica: There are a bunch of liars.

Naomi: Any tool that gets rid of pits, I've bought them. I don't use them.

Mica: Those tools are so useless, that pit thing. I just watched a TikTok video of someone chop putting the knife.

They did the little in the pit and then took it out and I was like, oh, wow. I don't need a tool for that. I got a knife for that.

Naomi: Oh, I just thought of something else that's very important for food styling kit.

Mica: Oh, please share.

Naomi: So citric acid powder, the ones that you use for pickling to help prevent [01:59:00] bananas from browning or apples from browning when they're sliced, even avocados.

Put that powder, the, the mixture of powder and water. And I also dunk all of the berries. All berries go in this citric acid powder for at least a few minutes, and you take it out, you dry it, and then it already, for the shoot, and it doesn't brown, it doesn't wilt. It's fine.

Mica: Oh my God. That is life changing.

Naomi: Yeah. Secretary Aspen powder is definitely something that I use very, very often and it's used very often in all shoes that I do.

Mica: Oh man. Where do you get that? I mean, you can get it off of Amazon, right? Or is it sold in grocery stores?

Naomi: Yeah. Yeah. You can get it at any grocery store, usually where the mason jars are.

It's very helpful for anything that you don't want to brown too quickly, and that's how you can also keep your guac quite vibrant as well, is to add a little bit of the citric acid [02:00:00] powder with the, with it helps keep it from browning because it's really preventing oxidation.

Mica: Oh man. Dang. We talking about the soul and education today.

Naomi: Hmm. Well, I always love commercials because I think my brain from college has wired me for advertisement and marketing, which also will never die in our world.

To a degree, yes. I wouldn't eat it if it's been sitting out for eight hours on a camera

Mica: and like a thousand Hands have touched it, and you're like.

Naomi: Don't touch it.

Mica: You don't want that.

But what I'm excited for, I've always been excited about commercials, but I mean, [02:02:00] of course I would like to do more movies of food styling for more movies. I've done a few and I love them. It's a different beast, but also working on my own shoots with photographers, creating more lifestyle shoots, challenging myself on creating food that I haven't gotten a chance to play with enough.

Like I wanna learn more about fake ice cream and making that stunning,

Mica: oh my God, that sounds like so much fun.

Covered with real icing and then decorated. And then I had these three plates of cake that he was trying on camera, the eye. I made eight cakes the night before the shoot for the client carnival cruise.

Mica: Wow. That is so cool.

Naomi: Yeah. Yeah. And Shaq actually ate my cakes and loved it, and I was like, yes, he enjoyed the cakes and I passed out all the cakes at the end of the shoot because like cake is fine.

It can sit out a little longer than other foods. And like, who doesn't like cake?

Mica: I think that's so cool that Shaq ate the cakes. And what did he think? Did he liked them? Right? I'm assuming he liked them.

Naomi: Yeah, you will see if you go to the Instagram and I think Facebook and Twitter, they're all shown on there.

'cause he was an officiant, so you could get married by the shack at CarVal Cruise. 'cause he's an officiant and it's very interesting. So if you ever come across that [02:04:00] online, I, I did those takes on there.

Mica: Oh my gosh. All right. Gonna tell my husband, we're gonna renew our vows and Shaq is gonna be the one to officiate it.

Naomi: I want them to always take that. I love collaborating. I love creative projects and I'm always down for trying something new. Maybe creating a spec commercial that we pitch to a brand I am down for creating. I enjoy this so much. I feel like this is what I [02:05:00] love doing. I love styling. I love creating something out, nothing and just figuring it out.

The best shoe sometimes comes with friends that are trying to get a client and we create something so beautiful. Even if the client didn't like it, we still created something very beautiful that we can put on our portfolio. So that's why I say stay creative. If you wanna do something, go and learn it. Go and do it.

Mica: Mm. I mean, you're a hundred percent right that this industry continues because of the people who are working it are passing down what they've learned and onto the next generation, the next incoming group of people.

Thank you so very much for being a guest on this show. Where can the listeners connect with you and get their soul filled through you? Where can they find you?

Naomi: Oh, thank you so much for having me as well. You can reach out to me on my website at. Food by naomi.com or you can just DM me on Instagram too.

It's at food styling by Naomi on Instagram. Yeah, I'm always happy to answer questions and I love helping out stylists figure out their way in this world. Keep pushing on. Sometimes you're going to be stuck in a moment where creativity isn't quite there and that's okay. Like go do something [02:07:00] else for a minute and then come back to what you're trying to figure out and then you'll see it.

You'll see, I promise you, sometimes your brain just needs to take a break and then you can come back to what you need to figure out. Create. Being creative is exhausting to a degree, but it's also very fulfilling when people love what you do. And so I say to all the creatives, never give up on yourself 'cause you are your own cheerleader.

You gotta keep pushing yourself. Try something new, keep learning, and please like contact me anytime. Yeah. Thank you.

Or follow me your host, Mica McCook, on Instagram at Mica dot McCook. Or you can follow the podcast on Instagram at a Savory [02:08:00] Shot podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or would like to be featured on the show, email us at podcast@thesavoryshot.com.