[00:00:00] Mica: Welcome to the 66th episode of the Savory Shot, the podcast where we talk about the art and soul of working in food photography. I'm your host with the most Mica McCook. I'm a food photographer based in Austin, Texas, where allegedly it's fall, but my thermostat says otherwise y'all. It has been in the upper eighties, lower nineties, which in Texas, weather is pretty cool.
That's a, a break from the a hundred plus temperatures we experienced during the summer. But y'all, I gotta say, I'm starting to get bored wearing my hoochie shorts. I wanna wear some pants, I wanna put some sweaters on. I wanna have my mug of pumpkin spice latte, which is funny 'cause I don't even like pumpkin spice.
But I, I want the [00:01:00] scarf, I want the little cap. I want my fall weather. And we're getting none of it. Before we jump into this amazing episode, I have to start with the big old thank you. Y'all, you keep this show a-rollin and I love you for it. To you, the loyal listeners, you are the reason this show keeps a cooking.
I just wanna say how much it means to me that y'all still show up. And I feel like I've been a terrible host by not being consistent in putting out episodes. I'm doing all the interviewing, but there's a lot that goes into putting out this podcast and I've got help, I've got a team and it's exciting. So your wish is my command.
Y'all have been messaging me for a hot minute, asking when is the next episode coming out. So here you are. [00:02:00] And I am just really excited that you guys are still here. So thank you. And if this is your first time tuning in, welcome to the Hot Mess Express, baby. I, I would say get comfortable, but yeah, get comfortable.
Yeah, go ahead, get comfortable. Just grab a snack, find a seat. You are in delicious company here. Now let's talk about today's guest. I am joined by the phenomenal Danielle Campbell. Danielle is a chef, a food and beverage stylist, and a recipe developer from Sunny LA. Y'all, I've been so, so excited to drop this episode.
To put it out into [00:03:00] the wild, our conversation was one of those conversations where we just did not give a fuck about mincing words being politically polite, like we really just talked about the industry as a whole. It was a very honest, raw conversation, and it's the kind of conversations that I just, I live for, I live and thrive for.
And y'all, Danielle came in, she was 10 toes down on business. She kept it so real, did not hold back. And those are the kind of conversations I think people need to hear in podcasts like this. Like it can't all be marigolds and daisies and, oh, this is, I'm now I'm on top. This is success story. Like I know that like those kinds of episodes are meant to like uplift and be optimistic.
But I also think that it's really important that people who are looking to get [00:04:00] into freelancing should know the real ugly, scary truth about what freelancing actually is. And that's what Danielle and I talked about. We talked about what it's actually like to freelance in this crazy creative industry and what it's like to freelance as a person of color, as a black woman, as a woman, but mainly as a person of color.
I'm so excited for this episode. So without further ado, I will get right into it. Grab your coffee, grab your wine. If it's been that kind of day, grab some water, kick back, and let's start the show. Well, welcome to the Savory Shot, a biweekly show about the art and soul of working in food photography.
I'm your host, Mica McCook. Every other Wednesday I sit down to chat with professionals in the industry. So that you feast on only the best tips and strategies in the business. [00:05:00] Alright, y'all let's get started.
Danielle, thank you so much for coming on the Savory Shot. I'm so excited that you're here and we've been having so many great conversations about the industry and our experiences in it. So it's really great to come together and put this down. So thank you so much for being on the show and for spending the afternoon with us.
[00:05:33] Danielle: Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. Just two girls chit-chatting and hanging out. Talking about the biz.
[00:05:39] Mica: Talking about the biz. Now, one thing I learned about you when I was doing research is that you are a native, born and raised losan. Is it a Los Angelian
[00:05:51] Danielle: Angelino? Is that what it is?
[00:05:53] Mica: Angeleno.
[00:05:55] Danielle: I think yes.
But I do have to admit, I was born in Connecticut, but I moved out here when I [00:06:00] was four, so I don't claim it at all anymore. So now when I write anything about myself, I don't even mention that it doesn't count.
[00:06:06] Mica: Like four years old who can remember anything.
[00:06:09] Danielle: Four is basically a baby. I was basically a baby.
So yes, I am from Los Angeles. Never lived anywhere else, unfortunately, but hopefully that'll change one day soon. But yes.
[00:06:21] Mica: So in your Los Angeles, what single question instantly tells you that someone actually grew up in LA?
[00:06:30] Danielle: It's funny because when you're outside of California, someone asks you where you're from, you say California, and they're like, but where?
Like it doesn't matter if it's not Los Angeles or maybe the Bay Area, no one cares about anything else. So you say you're from Los Angeles and then it's yeah, but where? Because there are many counties within Los Angeles, so, the fact that my city, most of my life has either been Los Angeles or Culver City is I'm very proud of.
But I think it's more of a, [00:07:00] not so much a Los Angeles thing, but like West coast, East Coast. The first thing we get into like is a In And Out or Shake Shack, because that tells us like how you really feel about LA and which side you're on. So I think that's really the closest thing. The fact that I could say I was raised in LA and when we moved to California in Hollywood actually, and In And Out.
So hopefully that answered your question. That's really the only thing I base anything off It's like food preference.
[00:07:32] Mica: Food preference. So looking back, what opportunities, if any opportunities did growing up in LA give you that it might've been harder to find elsewhere?
[00:07:43] Danielle: I'm really grateful that I grew up in such a diverse environment.
Like when I think back to high school and middle school and what that looked like, there were no shortage of kids that looked like me. So it's strange, I think because I grew [00:08:00] up in such a diverse environment and all my friends are just all different colors, were all from different places. When I like stepped out of high school and stepped into the real world, like when I started working or that's when I had a culture shock. I'm still in LA and LA is very diverse, but when you're in that little bubble of school and you see the same people every day, also my middle school and high school were connected.
So I went to middle school with all the same people and then to high school with all the same people. And then when I stepped out of that I was like, oh, I don't know. Also my school, I think they had some type of program where kids from other neighborhoods were allowed to come to our school. So it just brought so many different people and from all over the city.
I'm very fortunate to say that I know that people who grow up in places, not in these big cities, I can't even imagine what it's like in some of the states that would just be feel so isolating, I'm sure. But, so that's one thing. And the other also, my mom has [00:09:00] worked in the entertainment industry my entire life.
You're just not, you're so jaded. You don't care about anything about celebrities or seeing someone. I remember when people would come and visit, they'd be like, oh, this is where they shoot this and do this. And I was like, yeah, that's in my backyard. I don't care about any of this. Which also I feel has helped me with working on set and not caring about any of these people I'm working with.
And not in a rude way, but just like I'm able to concentrate and do my job because I've been in this environment for so long and I'm used to what goes on behind the scenes and being on a sound stage or being on a lot and not caring about any of it. So I think that's something that is very specific to LA.
Because of our all the sound stages and you can walk down the street and see a celebrity here. So I think I'm just very jaded, which has helped me get through life in LA and work and be professional.
[00:09:57] Mica: Well, speaking of that world, take me back for a [00:10:00] moment of all the possible food careers. What spoke to your heart and led you towards culinary school and what inner voice urged you to move on from it?
[00:10:12] Danielle: I think I just loved to eat my entire life. That's where it started. And it was loving to eat and then watching the Food Network. I just love the Food Network at night time. When it was time to go to sleep, I wasn't, I was watching Nick At Night, but also I was watching Emeril and all the shows on the Food Network and I have this memory that.
[00:10:31] Mica: Oh, Emeril Lagasse, he did the bam, right?
[00:10:34] Danielle: Yes, but I think I liked him pre bam. I, that's when he got like too commercial and too famous and started doing all these sound effects. It was just like calm down. Like I remember when you were not so theatrical.
[00:10:45] Mica: Just make the sauce.
[00:10:47] Danielle: Yeah, just make the food. But I have this distinct memory of going after school.
In middle school I had to go to the library and do my homework while I waited for my mom to pick me up. [00:11:00] And I would not do my homework. I hated school, but I would go to the librarian and get back issues of Bon Appetit and just look at them all day. And because they had all of them from year, like years and years, I would ask her for the next stack and she would give me like 20 at a time.
And I'd look at them all, give them back to her and she'd give me the next one. And I would do that. And I think I would look at Gourmet Magazine. Bon Appetit was always my favorite, but, so I've always just been obsessive looking at pictures of food and eating and of course, it was like, oh, I should be a chef.
And I decided that really early, but then got discouraged after listening to people say what the chef life would be like. It just didn't sound very appealing. So then I just forgot. Didn't forget about it, but I was just like, I'm gonna have to figure something else out. And I started working in the medical field and hated it.
And I started working in this office. That was, the job was terrible. It was depressing. Everyone in the office was so mean. [00:12:00] I was like, what am I doing here? And then I was just like, I gotta go to culinary school. I can't, I'll figure it out. I don't wanna work in a restaurant, but maybe if I just go, we'll see what happens.
And so I did that and since I knew I never wanted to work in a restaurant, I was like, why don't you be a private chef? That sounds fun. You could just like work for people and cook in their houses and they're like rich and they're nice and it's not how it sounds. And so I did that for seven years, seven or eight years.
In addition to catering and little popups and things like that, working with other chefs, but working in people's homes is not fun for a multitude of reasons. But it's weird for me. I don't like being in someone's personal space.
[00:12:42] Mica: Yeah, I get it.
[00:12:43] Danielle: It also, it doesn't allow for any creativity, which, and now I realize is why, another reason why I felt like I was suffocating in that space.
I'm just cooking the same thing all the time and I have to cater to, and of course I know this is my job, but cater to everything that they want. I don't wanna make this, [00:13:00] I had a client who wouldn't let me use any salt or olive oil on their food, and in addition to that, wanted it extra crispy so I had to burn vegetables and serve them to this person.
So I think private chefing just sucked every bit of energy, creativity, and love you have for cooking for people. Just sucked it right outta me. So, yeah, I think you asked me why I started doing it. It sounded appealing in the beginning. But then you start doing it and you realize it's not as glamorous as people make it seem.
But it could be for some people. I know some people who cook for private chefs and they're on jets and they're traveling with them and they fly them out to make them a chicken breast. But that was not happening in my situation.
[00:13:47] Mica: It's like, what are you doing? Oh I'm flying to Bali to make a chicken sandwich.
[00:13:53] Danielle: Seriously. Like crazy stuff. Crazy stuff like that. But they have the money and they [00:14:00] don't care. So they just like, oh yeah, I want my chef to come out here and make me a smoothie in the morning. Like crazy stuff like that. But that was not what I was dealing with. Yeah.
[00:14:09] Mica: So when you found yourself in food styling, like the creative aspect of it must have been like super refreshing and ugh, this is what I've been looking for.
This is what I need. Yes. This is the space that can, I can do anything in this space.
[00:14:28] Danielle: Especially because I didn't really know about food styling. I think we talked about it when I was in culinary school a little bit, but I didn't really know what that meant. So when I discovered it, it was like, oh, I love photography too, and I love food.
I can combine these two, and it's the best of both worlds. And I think that, yeah, was when I realized I found what I really like to do. At one point, I was taking photos as well, but it's hard to give a hundred percent to both sides. I like it better when I can just focus on the food and someone else [00:15:00] is in charge of the camera.
When you're doing both, it's okay. The lighting's fine. I put the food in. Then I'm like, oh, actually that doesn't look good. Oh, the food's getting cold, and then you have to go back to the lighting. It's not a seamless process. At least for me, it wasn't. I've done it and it's worked out and I've done some really cool things where I've had to do both, and the work has been great, but I prefer.
To not do that. Also, I was a self-taught photographer, so I just feel like my skillset with lighting and stuff isn't where I would want it to be, where I feel confident enough to continue to do that. Of course, I could learn and practice, but I don't really have any desire to do that because there's so many amazing photographers out there.
Also, it's hard to say no to work, but these days everyone tries to get everything for less, and I'm doing two people's jobs when I should really be doing one. You should be paying for someone who's an expert in that field to work with me, so you can get the best of both sides and we can come together.
That's another [00:16:00] reason I try not to do, they're like, Danielle, you're a food stylist. Can you also do props? No. Or can you also do this? If you're paying me for two people's rates, sure we can talk about it, but that rarely ever happens, and it's taking jobs from other people who could be hired for that project.
I'm not saying don't do those things because we all need to make money, but it's at what point are we gonna teach these people that they can't be so cheap?
[00:16:23] Mica: So we looked at those Bon Appetit magazines and you saw all of those beautiful food images. Did, at any point, did you wonder who put this together or who is the team behind this?
Or how did this all come together?
[00:16:38] Danielle: No, which is crazy because maybe if I had known at, in the seventh grade when I graduated from high school, I would've been able to say, I want to be a food stylist. And now I have wasted so much time wasting my life in a optometrist office. But that was clearly not my path and I should accept that.
But no, I didn't [00:17:00] know. But they didn't talk about it. Now I think now the past, like maybe with the rise of Hands and Pans videos and like Buzzfeed and Taste Made of 10 years ago, I think now people are like, Oh someone does that. No one really talked about it. So yeah, I think that's why it's also hard or it used to be really hard to like break into the industry too.
'cause it's like who do you talk to?
[00:17:25] Mica: Yes.
[00:17:26] Danielle: Yeah. So I didn't know and I wish I had known.
[00:17:29] Mica: Absolutely. So my background is I started doing family photography, which is weddings and families are probably the easiest industry to get into. Someone with kids, you got a client, a couple, there's your client and you can build your business from there.
So my family photography business picked up pretty quickly and I was encouraged by a teacher to pursue food photography. But then I realized that there's two different worlds of food photography and [00:18:00] there's the food blogging world and the brand photos that small CPG, whatever will. Hire you to like create product photos for them and that's like the I fluency world.
And then there's the commercial world where the big campaigns are, and I just had no idea like who to talk to, who to reach out to who, like what is step one, all of those things. I couldn't find a single website that said this is who you talk to. So I can see like on the photographer end, but like for a food stylist, like who do you talk to, who do you reach out to and how long do you apprentice?
How long do you know until you're ready? The more interviews I do, the more I realize that food stylist, I didn't know was a thing. And then someone said, Hey, you are a chef, you are a cook, or you are really good. Can you come in and style this? And then they're like, here I am. I'm a stylist now. Was that the case for you?
How did you find yourself in your first [00:19:00] role?
[00:19:00] Danielle: I started taking pictures and making food for myself on like. Instagram. And then I found a job listing for a food stylist at Taste Made, and based on my portfolio of photos that I had just taken for myself and made my own website with, they were like, oh, you'd be great to do videos, Hands and Pans talk on videos.
And that's how I got into Taste Made. It was like a job listing on Craigslist or something random like that in 2017 or 2016. And that's how I started doing it. And then I was reaching out to a bunch of stylists, or when I would ask other stylists how they got into the industry, it was like, oh, you have to assist first.
You've gotta assist. You can't get a job without assisting. I was like, okay. So I would email stylists in Los Angeles, I'm a trying to get into food styling. I would love to learn from you, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Never ever got responses from anyone ever. So I was like, how am I supposed to break into this [00:20:00] industry and assist people if no one's letting me help them?
So I started taking more pictures myself and then eventually was able to get jobs because I built my own portfolio at this point, because you're not gonna get hired for food styling if you don't have any work to show for it. I can tell you I can cook and I went to culinary school, but it's very different from being able to make food look good for camera out of necessity and boredom.
Creating this portfolio for myself allowed me to get jobs without having actually worked on sets before except for Tastemade. And shortly after that I worked for a few other food media companies that were doing the same sort of thing, videos for Instagram and Facebook. Then had some work at like the Food Network and some other things, and at the same time found other jobs where they wanted a photographer and a food stylist in one package.
So I was doing those recipe photos, recipe developing, making the food, and [00:21:00] photographing it for these brands. I would charge them like per recipe, and I did a lot of those so that I had brands on my website now and more photos, and I started doing that for a few companies. Did this for a while still at Taste Made and Buzzfeed and all these other places.
Then the pandemic happened and we all know when that happened. And so prior to the pandemic and when I first started food styling, I was doing food styling while still private chefing, so food styling was not my full-time job because I didn't have enough of it to leave private chefing. The pandemic happened and then private chefing stopped because everybody thought they were gonna die and no one wanted anyone touching their food.
And then it turned into brands asking what can we do where people can shoot it at home because people can't be together? Then that picked up. Then I got into working with food network chefs who during the pandemic couldn't go to a [00:22:00] studio and cook food on live tv. So they had to cook it from their own homes.
So I would make all the swaps and the food deliver it to these chef's houses, and then the Today Show or whatever would do a Zoom call with the chef and they would be like, this is what I made for you today, but really I made it. So that's another like space I was pushed into because of the pandemic and just doing things from home, and then that led to other things, and then it just spiraled from there.
I got a kind of weird start. I've only assisted as a food stylist maybe three times.
[00:22:38] Mica: With that being said, are there any lessons that you feel like you would've learned quicker through a mentor or that you learned the hard way?
[00:22:49] Danielle: Yeah, just how to style certain things. I, of course, I would watch like a YouTube video or do as much research as I could beforehand because I didn't have anyone to ask.[00:23:00]
I can't think of anything specific, but definitely just how to style certain things on set. I definitely do things a little differently now than I did in 2020 when I started. I will garnish a drink differently or I will not cook something all the way, or I just, coming from a culinary background without any food styling, I had to do it the culinary way.
Now I can redo it the opposite way, where I can make it look like a professional cooked it, but I don't really have to really cook it, or I don't really have to put this on it or don't cook it as long because it'll die faster. So I think I would've gotten there faster if I had worked with a food stylist before.
I was just this chef of showing up on set who knew how to make food look pretty. And back to what you were saying about no one responding, I think people are threatened by someone like asking them questions and trying to break into the industry. They feel like it's their competition, like, why am I gonna show you how to do my job so you can take my job?
Also [00:24:00] something I never, and I don't know if this is the right way to look at it, but the few times that I did assist, no one paid attention to me. The focus is on the lead stylist. So the notion of if you assist, you'll get jobs and they'll come to you. That's not really true because at the end of the day, it's that director or that photographer loved the work.
They're not gonna be like, Hey, your assistant was great. Can I have her number? She did such a great job. The focus is on the lead. No matter how much the assistant is doing, it's always the lead. It's so going into it, I was like, yeah, you're telling me to assist, I'm gonna get work. They're not gonna call me.
They're gonna call you back.
[00:24:36] Mica: Yeah.
[00:24:37] Danielle: So that was so weird to me.
[00:24:39] Mica: Yeah, because your role is to lift up the lead stylist's role and support them.
[00:24:47] Danielle: And support. Yeah. Which is an amazing thing. I'm just saying that telling people that has to be their journey and that's the only way to food styling, I think is not true.
[00:24:56] Mica: I am 100% on board with you [00:25:00] when you say that, because I have been told by various commercial photographers who say, well, it's a rite of passage and it's, people get into this industry in many different phases of life. Not every single photographer starts out as a young 20 something or 19-year-old. Some of them get in this industry midlife, and they just do not have the luxury to assist you.
They need to hit the ground running. Or maybe they go to school and they earn their stripes that way there is more than one way to earn a stripe, and it's on them to get that education outside of school. I wanna take it to our discussion from before about the struggle of being a black creative in a mostly white space.
Food photographer. I think I've met. Two other black food photographers? No. 3, 3, [00:26:00] 3. I've met three others and I think that needs to change. I do not like that at all. And you shared that nine times out of 10 when you walk on a set, you're the only black person on set, and that the first time you walked onto an all black production that it felt amazing and wonderful.
So what goes through your mind in moments that contrast from that when you walk into a space and you are the only black person there?
[00:26:29] Danielle: Those are so often I'm not expecting anything else. So when I do walk on these sets where it's predominantly black or just people of color in general, it is so surprising and almost takes your breath away.
It's amazing. But it's also like, where are all these people on a daily basis? This isn't their only job. So where are these people working every day and why do I only see them when it's a black production? It's like they just materialize out of thin air and then after the shoot they just poof and they just disappear.
And that's it. It's [00:27:00] so strange. I don't even know how to express how that feels. And it's, you just feel more comfortable naturally when you're surrounded by people who look like you. And all these shoots that I've done that were these types of sets, everything just came together so beautifully. And I'm just like, why aren't we?
Why isn't this a regular thing?
[00:27:20] Mica: Yeah. Why isn't this happening more? And it grinds my gears when Juneteenth comes around and it's like hot or like history month hot. And I'm like, what about July? What about May? Like I have all these other months. That would be wonderful to be considered for projects.
[00:27:40] Danielle: Yes, it would be great to be work with other black people on set, but I'm talking like anybody else.
Can there just be a person of color around at all? And most times the answer is no. I just don't understand. It's so confusing. How do you not have [00:28:00] someone on your roster that is not a white male or female? I'm just so confused. And we're in Los Angeles. This isn't, it's not hard to find, and I know it exists because I did arrive on that set of about 400 people.
I had one shoot that was a huge production. They like shut down the row downtown. So it was enormous. Sorry, you don't know what that is. You don't live here. It's a huge space downtown. And it was for, the talent was an A-list black male celebrity for a, for Chase Bank. So the budget and the scale of this was enormous.
And the people cooking craft services were people of color, the makeup, the hair department, the PAs, like the security guards. It was amazing. So. I don't know where these people go after the shoot is over. I really think it's just, maybe I'm just imagining it all and they all just disappear after the shoot is over because I never see them again.
And I think that the initiative that [00:29:00] people were taking in 2020 and 2021 to make sure that they were diversifying their sets has gone out the window. No one cares about it anymore. It's like it never even happened.
[00:29:09] Mica: Oh no. 2020, 2021. Those were my busiest years.
[00:29:15] Danielle: Yep. Busiest I've ever been.
[00:29:17] Mica: And they were like, tag a black creator or tag a black photographer and then it just, it's frustrating.
[00:29:26] Danielle: It's frustrating. But also at that time, it was great to be everywhere, but also I knew you were just trying to fill a box, so it also made me feel gross. Also, remember when I told you I didn't get responses from anyone when I asked to assist them? Do you know how many people at that time responded to emails?
I sent them two years prior.
[00:29:45] Mica: What?
[00:29:46] Danielle: Oh hey. Hey. You sent me an email asking if you could assist me. Are you still interested? There was so many points during those two years where I was super busy and getting recognized, but it [00:30:00] was for all of the wrong reasons. So it was very hard.
[00:30:03] Mica: Very performative.
[00:30:05] Danielle: Yeah, and it was like, I should be grateful I'm working.
When some people were like, it doesn't matter how you get the work as long as you get the work. I'm like, yeah, but they're all, literally, they're only hiring me because I'm black now and not because I don't even, I, of course I had the skills, but I don't even know if it was really about that for some of these jobs.
I was just like checking off a box.
[00:30:26] Mica: No, it was, I definitely feel like it. It was more about, look at how colorful we are over here.
[00:30:34] Danielle: Our set is, yeah.
[00:30:36] Mica: Look how diverse it is. And it's not all of them. Like I do feel like there are some Creative Directors out there who are really championing, keeping sets as diverse as possible, and they're purposely seeking out creators of color no matter what the project is.
They really are trying to like do their part and put people on the map and for them, I'm grateful for, [00:31:00] I would just love to see more faces and I know that whenever I put my teams together, of course Austin is pretty limited on who's available, but I do intentionally seek out female whether you are cisgender and you identify, I seek that out persons of color, like anyone that.
I just, I wanna be able to provide opportunities as they come to me because it's just passing the torch. If I can, I will. It's really important to me as far as a freelancer, to create opportunities for black creators because we need more, we are so imaginative and talented, so our ideas should be pushed out there.
So shout out to Apostrophe Reps for doing their part and their wonderful program, their mentorship for pushing POC artists with their Amplify mentorship.
[00:31:57] Danielle: Well, that's the reason why I [00:32:00] unintentionally I was, I subconsciously, I'm sure that is why I make sure. My assistant with me is a person of color the same, the comfort and relatability and all of that.
Because I know that if I bring someone else with me, at least there'll be two of us on set. Yeah. And when I'm feel like I'm being treated a certain way or there's a weird vibe on set, I can run that by the person I'm with and they can relate. And you know where I'm going with that?
[00:32:33] Mica: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 'cause we'll be the, some folks try to gaslight us and tell us, oh, well that microaggression that you thought was a microaggression wasn't really a microaggression and you're just taking it as one.
And I think I know when someone is talking to me a certain way.
[00:32:47] Danielle: Yeah. So I think that's definitely really important. And one thing you were mentioning earlier about creative directors and working with and trying to bring people in. I think it's important though, for these large [00:33:00] brands, there have been a few black-owned brands that I've worked for.
I was so excited to get on set because I was like, oh, this is gonna be where it's different, and I get on set and everyone behind the scenes is white and it's, you're putting your name on this company. There should definitely be some of your people behind the scenes. So that's been a weird space to arrive and I'm so excited to get there and I arrive and I'm still the only black person on set, and I'm just like, oh, okay.
This person, this celebrity that has their name on this brand has no idea or doesn't even care what's going on behind the scenes. Then the flip side of that, working for a shoot I did recently for a black creator in this business, everyone behind the scenes was black, and this person has publicly said and mentioned many times that she wants to make sure that she is bringing her people in behind the scenes, in front of the camera, outside of the camera, everywhere, the production, everything.
So that was noticed and very obvious and amazing, but. A problem I ran into with a big brand. I [00:34:00] did a Black History month shoot with this brand who will remain unnamed. And they specifically called me and said they were looking for a black food stylist for a Black History month shoot. And they were like, everyone on set is going to be a person of color, the photographer, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I'm like, okay, great. Then they send me the deck for this shoot. And one of the things they want me to make for the shoot on Black History Month is watermelon water. And I look at the deck and I'm like, are you kidding me? Are you actually kidding me? And I called the woman and I was like, I'll take this job, but I'm uncomfortable with this.
Whose idea was this? How did it get so far that it's in a deck and that we're about to put this into production and no one caught this. It's because everyone behind the scenes, they don't have anyone to check this stuff. You put black people with a camera in their hand and but what about all the development that comes in before that?
And she was like. You're right. You're not the first person to bring this up. We're gonna [00:35:00] bring this back to them and we're going back to the drawing board, and they ended up cutting it, thank God. But what if I had, first of all, been too scared to say anything? Yeah. So that's just a prime example of, yeah, you can just throw us on set and make a black commercial, but who is making sure that we are taken care of and we're in a safe space behind the scenes?
[00:35:22] Mica: It's a good thing you did speak up, because what if that had, let's say it would've been published, we'd have been so pissed.
[00:35:28] Danielle: Well, the way this company's things aren't looking good for them at all right now anyway, by the way, this content never aired because for a multitude of other reasons. So this commercial that I did never even saw the light of day.
They did take out the watermelon water, but it didn't happen because I think they may have been, they're getting canceled. But anyway, they would've known. They would've learned. Yeah, it's just it. Why does it take me saying something, even if there was. No one behind the scenes that was a person of color that's pretty obvious and [00:36:00] blatantly racist in my opinion.
[00:36:02] Mica: I always say what a privilege it is to just show up and not worry. Have to worry about who's gonna be on set and if whether or not you're gonna be alone in this. And I feel like that's taken for granted sometimes. So I went to South by Southwest this past year. They had Black Creators Meet Up and the room was full.
I think they're gonna have to have a bigger room next year, but it just, I wish that they would've sent out the contact information for everybody because there were so many creators. Not just creators, but people in all kinds of different positions that all of us should have known each other and have some kind of way of contacting each other afterwards.
And it just, it makes me feel even more determined to like think, well, what can I do here in Austin to have a community of creators because I only know of one [00:37:00] other black food photographer here in Austin and she is wicked talented. And I didn't even know about her until I met her at another black networking event.
And it's like, why don't I know you? Why don't I know about you? Your work is fucking amazing. So it's, I want more groups like that locally. So are there locally for you, any groups or informal groups or networks that have helped you feel less isolated?
[00:37:29] Danielle: Nothing that I've found, but a group of women in the food industry that we've all worked together and know each other.
At one point started like the black woman in food, like group chat and we would send each other jobs and text each other and things like that. But that was something that was done within our little group. It wasn't. It's something that we found and joined. I need to be better about looking for things like that.
There are also, it would be helpful, I had a friend of mine who was coming out with a cookbook a few years ago [00:38:00] and she asked me to send her black food photographers in Los Angeles and I couldn't send her one. I didn't have one to send her. Specifically, black food photographers, didn't have one. And I sent her other people in other states.
[00:38:13] Mica: I don't think there are that many of us, to be quite honest. They're not. They're not. Like I said, I've met three others and that's on a national scale and that's in all the years. There's plenty. of White photographers out there and female, white female photographers, but I've met three and two of them are female and one is a man.
That's not okay. There should be more of us.
[00:38:39] Danielle: Yeah, and they're out there. There have to be, so I need to find a space where. There has to be like there's an Instagram page. I follow black women and food and some other ones, but there needs to be like a network. I'm sure there is. We just haven't found it yet.
Where,
[00:38:57] Mica: Yes.
[00:38:58] Danielle: It's like all [00:39:00] of the black creatives in a category and you can click on stylists and then it's all the ones and they're just like organized by state and there has to be something like that out there.
[00:39:10] Mica: Well, if there's not, I'm starting it.
[00:39:12] Danielle: Yeah, because that would be really helpful.
[00:39:16] Mica: Because what's the saying, if you build it, they will come.
If you can't find it, then maybe that's your calling to build it and to spearhead it. I wanna move it to the, we talked a little about this before about how much, freelancers, like put in capital for jobs and then getting reimbursed for it 5,000 bazillion years later, and how frustrating that is. And I now, I wasn't prepared for that when I started out.
There are a lot of costs that I had to absorb and go find the money for and then get reimbursed. And you mentioned that's something that as a stylist [00:40:00] that you deal with like advancing hundreds of dollars in groceries, props, and then you have to wait for reimbursement. What's one system or boundary that you use to protect your cash flow these days?
[00:40:12] Danielle: Protect my cash flow. Oh God. So the fact that these brands have so much money and I didn't know about advances from the brand until I got an agent. I didn't even know I could ask for that. So I spent years, coming out of pocket and then would be reimbursed after the job. And you would think that the reimbursement would happen immediately.
The reimbursement comes when you get your paycheck, which is crazy to me that freelancers are on a net 30, sometimes net 60, sometimes net 90 with the new California state law or whatever was put in place. Now freelancers have to be paid within 30 days. However, the caveat is if you're working for a company that is outside of Los Angeles and you're freelancing for them, [00:41:00] they have their own rules.
Because I am working for a company right now and I was so ready to hit them with it. You're breaking the law. And they were like, we are based in Alabama. We've got a net 90. And I was just like, oh my God. So when you are doing a job for a brand, you will get a list of things you have to buy, whether you're a prop stylist or a food stylist.
Sometimes photographers, you have to get seamless, and I'm sure you have so much stuff you have to get and seamless are so expensive and all that other stuff. But for me, I have to get food and ingredients. To bring, to set, to cook and to execute these photos. And sometimes it could be a huge shoot where I'm spending $800 on food.
Sometimes I'm only spending a hundred dollars on food. Sometimes the client sources their product so I don't have to buy it. They're a lot of different scenarios. But yes, that money comes out of your own pocket and most times you don't get it back until 30 days later. So let's say you are just starting out as a food [00:42:00] stylist and you don't have money in your bank account, extra money to front 400, 500, $600 for a shoot.
Where do you get that? It's, I'm working to get money, but I have to pay to be a part of this shoot. Sometimes I ask for advances. Sometimes they say no. Sometimes they will Zelle me petty cash, which is great. Now if I, as I anticipate a job being really expensive, I will ask for in advance now that I know how that works, having worked with an agent, if they say no there's another option of sometimes asking for a company credit card. If they're a company. Sometimes they will buy the groceries, but then you don't have, you don't pick it out. And as a food stylist, that's very important to be able to pick out your own ingredients.
So one thing that I've done, which is a very slippery slope, but it has benefited me in some ways, is I wanted to build my credit a few years ago. So I got a few credit cards that I would [00:43:00] get five times points in cash back for eating out in grocery stores. And those two things are things that I do. I'm at the grocery store probably four times a week.
That's for myself and for work. And now it's so. i'm so used to grocery shopping. For myself in such a, oh, let me go get a steak and vegetables for dinner. I don't shop for the week. I can. I feel like I can't even do that anymore. I'm at the grocery store so often now. It's not a chore for me anymore if I'm in my personal life.
If I want something for dinner, I'll go out, get something, make it that night, get the food, so it's not a hassle. But anyway, so I have credit cards where I will buy all the shopping for the shoot on that card, get a bunch of points. Also, it's not coming directly out of my bank account. And the idea is when you get paid in 30 days to put that money directly from the lump sum of money you got back in your paycheck and put it towards the balance on your credit card.
And [00:44:00] when you are on time with that and when you are consistent, it's great. It works out great. Your money's not coming out from your bank account. You're getting points, you're building your credit. It's great. The slippery slope with that, I was discussing this with a friend recently, is you get this paycheck.
The total amount just seems like such a big amount that you were like, yeah, I got so much money. And you like keep it and you don't put it towards your credit card and you're like, oh shit, that's not just like extra money. So you just have to be careful because you'll see that this direct deposit and you're like, Ooh, I have money.
And I'm like, well, about $800 of that, I need to put right back. So you just have to be on top of it. And if you are good about that, I think that's a good route to take for those reasons. Building your credit, getting points. I was able to fund an entire round trip and hotel, stay to London on points from my credit card with grocery store points.
And then I have another card that [00:45:00] I get. Like Amazon Whole Foods card. So then I'm at Whole Foods shopping all the time, so then I get like free Amazon money. So you just gotta make it work for your advantage. I think that's really the only tip. I'm not telling anybody to get a credit card, I'm just saying that's what works for me when I'm being good.
One other little story there, I went to a networking event for stylists in the industry and she asked a question to the crowd and she said, so if you're a stylist and you are over a thousand dollars in debt, raise your hand. And a couple people raise their hands. Then she was like, if you're more than $5,000 in debt, she asked if you were more than $10,000 in debt due to your profession, raise your hand.
And multiple people raise their hands. And one person was like, I'm a stylist, an interior stylist. I had to buy a couch the other day for a brand. What this person's like propping out houses for photo shoots. So imagine how much [00:46:00] I'm complaining about some food I have to buy. There are people who have to furnish homes with their credit cards and with their
[00:46:09] Mica: Holy shit.
[00:46:11] Danielle: Yeah, with their own money, which is bananas. To think that like that huge company couldn't front couldn't give you in advance. So that's something that I wish I knew ahead of time coming into this business.
[00:46:23] Mica: Definitely. Oh, for sure. So three questions that you ask every producer or higher up, whoever makes the hiring decisions.
What questions do you ask before accepting a job and why? And what are some red flags that make you go uh-uh?
[00:46:41] Danielle: Well, the first question is what's the rate and what the assistant rate is. Sometimes a lot of people don't account for the assistant, so then I will tell them what my assistant rate is or their rate usually is, or how much I hope to get for them.
And then they're like, oh, we [00:47:00] can't do that. So then sometimes that has to be brought down. Unfortunately, the location is very important if you're cooking. I have been asked to do shoots. I'm like, where are we shooting? We're like, oh, we're shooting at this place. You need to do a full Thanksgiving spread, but we are only at the microwave.
[00:47:16] Mica: A what?
[00:47:18] Danielle: That's a direct quote. That is actually something that happened. So that is very important to me. So after rate, the second question is, do I have a full kitchen? Where are we cooking? What's going on? Because the, a lot of producers don't really know about food. So the fact that this producer thought that I could do a full Thanksgiving swag with only a microwave, just shows you how little this person knows about food.
So you have to ask those questions because you cannot assume that they are taking care of those things
[00:47:46] Mica: Or they have a hot plate. Really cool.
[00:47:49] Danielle: One hot plate. So that's my second. My third question is usually, is there a prop stylist? Because it's often assumed, oh, you're the food, you're doing food. So [00:48:00] you get all the plates and you're gonna get all the cups and all the stuff that's gonna be on set.
Is that what you're doing? No. That's not how that works. So those are my top three. Those are very important. And set the tone. And to answer your question, what is like a no usually is can you do props too? If it's a really heavy food shoot, I'm not doing props too. I can't, I have too much stuff to worry about.
Also, pay someone their job to do props.
[00:48:28] Mica: Yeah. Someone who likes props and that's like their jam.
[00:48:34] Danielle: And knows that's their job, their specialty.
[00:48:38] Mica: It's like you're not gonna get a podiatrist to work on eyes.
[00:48:42] Danielle: You could, but you could, but you should. You probably have an eye infection a after that, but, so nine times out of 10, if I'm asked to do props as well, the answer is no.
If it's something as simple as could you pick up a [00:49:00] glass that you like or whatever, I might be nice and do it. If it's not a full on, if it's not a full on other job for another person that you're taking away, if I am picking up a few items from the store, fine, I'll do that. But anything more than a few items, you need to hire someone else who's job is to be doing that thing.
Yeah, so that's, I think those are my three.
[00:49:24] Mica: Those are solid three. I wanna close out today's interview to talk about something that we both feel passionately, pretty passionate about. I saw a post on LinkedIn that oof it really, pissed me off. It was this, I don't know what she was or what she did, but she posted these images of this AI like product and she's, oh, I created this in, I don't even know what software she used, but I created this in AI and this is how much money I saved.
And she said, don't even bother with hiring a photographer. Don't even bother with this and this. [00:50:00] And if you want my guidebook, press product or type in product in the comment section. And I thought that when I clicked on all the comments, 'cause it had a shit ton of comments and I thought, man, there's gonna be a bunch of people just pissed off and I can't wait for it.
But it was all just product. And I felt mad about this post for two reasons. One, I felt like she just completely devalued what photographers do and just put, equated it to just a prompt, oh, I can do what you do. Here's a prompt. And I also felt like our skills were being erased and it was just disrespectful.
It wasn't necessary and it equated it down to money. And it's just, look, we're not out here trying to be fucking Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk. We're not trying to screw you outta money. Like we just wanna be able to make a living as a creative and this is how much it costs. And, but it rubbed me the wrong way and it pissed me off that a lot of people were just commenting product and I wanted to like curse every single [00:51:00] person who commented product.
So my question is, how do you feel about AI encroaching on creative jobs and where do you think it could take food styling if it would actually impact food styling?
[00:51:16] Danielle: It's definitely going to impact food styling. I've seen it happen before my eyes. I was on a shoot last week and they did the whole deck in AI.
So they were showing me these images and we're like, we did these in AI. We love them. Can you recreate these practically. And immediately it was like, yeah, I'm gonna try. But that clearly is like something floating. It's not real obviously. So this may be a little difficult. We get to the shoot, the client hasn't arrived yet, but I'm with the creative director and the photographer and we spent about an hour and a half trying to get this food item on a fork the perfect way, just on a fork.
It was taking forever, and he's, I don't like that. It doesn't look like the picture. And I'm like, it's not gonna look like the picture, because that is not a real [00:52:00] thing. Then we finally get to a place where we like what I've put on the fork and we start shooting it. The client arrived a little late, they get to set, we have a bunch of things on the screen and the client was like, oh, I love that.
And the guy goes, that's the AI image. And he was like, oh, let's just buy that. I just wanna buy that image instead. While we're all doing the best we can and we've all been working for hours. And they did. The client was so nice, they didn't know, and I don't think they know how these shoots work. It was their first time shooting product.
They just came in and said this and it was such a, well, there you go. That's how our jobs are gonna be taken. We're spending an hour trying to get this perfect image. The AI image you typed into the computer printed out, or I don't know, not printed, that's not the right term, was made in two seconds. You didn't even have to pay anyone to do it.
And he thinks it's perfect. And it was just so heartbreaking. It was really sad. So, and that's not the first shoot where I've been given a deck. There was another one where this bowl of cereal was [00:53:00] exploding towards camera and milk and pieces of cereal were floating through the air. And I were like talking on the call about how to like recreate that.
And I was like, I'm not an engineer, I don't know how we're gonna create that. And we spent hours trying to like rig these bowls of cereal and blow in them and spa. It was just like. So much time wasted trying to recreate these images that honestly you could get right away with AI. So I'm terrified because I've seen it happen in front of me.
Also, I've seen it be helpful on set. I've been on set where it's a thing in LA or anywhere. Now these days you can't find watermelons with seeds in them. So my friend was able to type in watermelon seed and in my seed, this watermelon, all of a sudden it had beautiful black seeds in them and that was helpful.
But it's only gonna get better. And I know for legal reasons, they can't use AI images yet for product, but it's a matter of time before they can. [00:54:00] And then me taking an hour trying to get something the perfect way on a fork, they're not gonna be waiting around for that. So I don't know what to say about AI except for, it's scary.
Someone just emailed me today and was like. Talking about AI and how he's losing work as a photographer to it. So I don't know. I don't wanna sound like pessimistic, but it's scary.
[00:54:24] Mica: No, and I've used AI in my storyboards. Like I actually, I draw my shot, my shots out, and I'll go into Midjourney and I'll say exactly what I want photography wise.
But in the prompt I say drawing, not picture. Because the last thing I exactly what happened, that's the last thing I want to happen. Where a client will look at this AI image and they'll be like, oh, well let's just use that. So I make sure that it's a drawing and that the client knows that this is a drawing.
This is what I'm envisioning in my mind. [00:55:00] So don't get married to this 'cause it's a drawing we are going to recreate just for composition. You get to see what I'm thinking lighting wise. You can't just pluck this picture out and then put it there. Like there's gonna be a lawsuit. At some point, because some restaurants, some brand is gonna use an AI image, and it's just, right now there are no laws, there are no boundaries.
So nobody really knows what's okay and what's not okay. And I think it's gonna take some court cases for it to happen.
[00:55:28] Danielle: Well, I'm hoping with that, because now for Mense, let's say you were doing a McDonald's commercial, all of the food that you're using to advertise that McDonald's has to be their food, and that's for legal reasons.
So I'm hoping that for the same reason, you will not be allowed to do AI food because it's a false advertisement. That's not what you're getting. Yeah. Granted, your McDonald's will never look like how it does when you get it at the drive-thru. That's a whole another version of lying about something.
[00:55:55] Mica: I just, I do not see how it would [00:56:00] be possible to use a completely AI generated image of a food photo.
It still be legally okay. But I have seen restaurants on their Instagrams using AI images, and I'm like, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Like it will be interesting to see when it comes because it will come. How do you see the industry changing in the next few years with AI being what it is? I don't know.
[00:56:28] Danielle: I guess it depends on if laws change or not. I think it's a great, helpful tool, but when it's doing a better job than what we can do practically, then that's when we're in trouble. Which I don't think we're that far off from that because I've seen it. The image, the AI images that they did for this shoe, they were beautiful.
I could see I, they were, because they were perfect. They were perfect. Things were a little odd, but like those things could be fixed. [00:57:00] So if I was a client who didn't know anything about anything, didn't know how a shoot worked, I just wanted a beautiful picture of this thing. Aside from the fact that it's false advertisement, 'cause it's not the real thing.
Why wouldn't you want the perfect image? So I can see how things are gonna be a little, everyone that I've spoken to that's a photographer is you just gotta be optimistic and we have to learn with it and learn how to use it in photography. And as a stylist, I don't really know where I can come into that because my whole job will be taken away from me.
And I think if I'm shooting food with people, that's when you're probably safer because people right now, we still want real people in these photos and videos and interacting and I don't think we're gonna be able to have an actress or a model interacting with a burger via AI if it were just like a photo.
So because of that, I think, yes, I'll still have a job because they still wanna see people eating food on set and in movies and on tv. But eventually when they want robots for all that stuff is when I'm gonna be [00:58:00] really scared. But this is all, I don't know. We need to try to be as optimistic as possible.
I think we all do, but I think we all need, also need to be realistic and ready for the change. I try to be more optimistic. I've been told I need to be more optimistic, so I'm trying not to just doom and gloom. Everything sucks. We're screwed, but I'm more leaning towards that side than the optimism.
But I just say that so I don't sound negative.
[00:58:33] Mica: Yeah, I get it. What's the alternative? Just, yeah, feeling sad and, oh, this makes me not wanna create, and I get it. I get it. So let's end this even more optimistic. What's exciting you right now?
[00:58:47] Danielle: I was gonna say, that's a good segue into the mental health conversation by
[00:58:53] Mica: Well, yeah. Let's touch on that.
Do you have outside hobbies, routine therapy, digital detox, [00:59:00] anything that acts as a reset button to protect your mental health. Especially when you think about heavy topics like this.
[00:59:07] Danielle: I think as a freelancer in our industry, that topic isn't weighing on me so much that at the moment, of course I think about it, I'm worried, but that's something that's out of my control.
I don't have any, there's nothing we can do about it. So I try not to focus on that. Being a freelancer in this industry, the up and down of work is more what gets to me and not being busy and feeling like if I don't work, I don't make money and therefore I'm, it's just a constant back and forth and up and down when you are a freelancer.
So as someone who likes to work, someone who likes to be creative all the time and be doing something, it's hard for me when I'm not working. And I realized that when I went from being really busy a few years ago to all of a sudden work, the workflow changing and I was like, oh, I'm going crazy. So. I think it's important to find life outside of work that makes you [01:00:00] happy, especially if you're a creative, something that still allows you to be creative and productive.
That's not your job. For me, it's like doing ceramics or this is still my job, but like doing test shoots with friends. That's a great way to, I'm still doing the thing that I love. Granted, we're not getting paid for it, but at least we can do what we want and we can be creative in that space. But going somewhere to do an activity, back to ceramics, for me, it's like I'm able to go to a studio, take a class, or do something, sit there, make something.
It keeps your mind off of worrying and it exercises those muscles that are dormant when you're not working. So yeah, I think also learning how to manage the stress you may feel during the up and down is very important. Not falling until this sucks work's never gonna pick up. Is it just me or other people not [01:01:00] working?
Does my work suck? I rarely fall into that hole, but I could definitely see how that could happen if you're not working and no one's calling and things are slow. So why isn't anyone calling me? Am I not as good as I thought I was gonna be? Thankfully, I still have confidence. The lack of work sometimes hasn't affected that yet.
Hopefully it won't. But yeah, just finding life outside of work because otherwise you'll go crazy, whatever that is. Like projects around the house even. I don't know, like for me, I just have to be doing something productive and creative at the same time. So that's why I am selling mugs on Etsy for fun.
[01:01:42] Mica: Oh my God, I wanna do that.
I'm so curious to do that. But I love creative, but productive because that's right. Right along with my needs. I'm sure like most of the listeners, if I'm not busy, then I, all I have to deal with are [01:02:00] my thoughts and I'm like.
[01:02:01] Danielle: Right.
[01:02:02] Mica: And it's so easy to go down that rabbit hole of I'm not insert enough insert and it does impact your creativity.
It does weigh you down very much heavily. So that's why I asked ChatGPT to help me come up with a routine to step away from my phone because I noticed that I was just constantly looking at my Instagram and I'd see other photographers and they're showing they're behind the scenes and I'm over here. I ain't doing shit.
[01:02:32] Danielle: Well look, I do realize though. A lot of that don't believe everything on Instagram. I know people who post old work to make it seem like they're working. And I also know that a lot of stuff they're not being paid for. It may look like I'm on set, but I'm really on a test shoot. So I try not to let, 'cause you did ask me if I do a social media detox, I don't because I don't let social media get to me that much because I'm aware that a lot of it's bullshit.
[01:02:58] Mica: I'm about to be 40 this year. I [01:03:00] remember what life was like before cell phones and I remember what life was like now and it makes me genuinely appreciate my younger years and my teenage years when I didn't have a cell phone. I know my mom was worried about me half of the damn time. 'cause I could just leave and nobody would know where I'm at.
And then it's like, where'd she go? And I'm like, is she coming back? And I do miss just not being able to be reached. It's the strangest thing. But I would just like an afternoon where it's just. Me and my phone is at home and I don't have to worry about anything. I just, I wanna be less attached to my phone and I don't know.
It would be nice.
[01:03:44] Danielle: Yeah. We're at the age where we know what it was like the old normal way. We knew what it was like to not have a cell phone, not have Instagram, not even have streaming music. You know what I mean? I feel like our age is like right where it's the end, [01:04:00] because after that, everyone had a, has a cell phone now at eight and their own iPad at four.
I'm like, what don't you guys play with Barbies and Hot Wheels anymore? That's why all of these kids now are, have no attention spans. They can't focus on anything because they don't get to use their imagination and just sit there.
[01:04:20] Mica: Yeah. To just be bored.
[01:04:22] Danielle: To be bored. I, someone sent me something on Instagram that kids don't know how to be bored anymore and they don't know how to entertain themselves without a device, which is crazy. And I do that too sometimes. I'll be scrolling while watching TV and I'm like, I'm watching tv. Why am I scrolling? Put the phone down.
[01:04:38] Mica: Exactly.
[01:04:40] Danielle: Is this show not enough? If it's that boring, put something else on. But I have lost a job because I responded like 20 minutes later, which is absurd.
[01:04:48] Mica: What?
[01:04:48] Danielle: Sorry? We found someone else. 'cause they're sending out a mass email or sending copy and pasting, replacing the name. Whoever responds first wins. So I've unfortunately, whenever it's an inquiry, even if I'm on set, I'll be like, Hey, [01:05:00] I'm on set. I'm interested, but I will get back to you later. Yeah, if I can do that.
[01:05:05] Mica: Or even set an auto reply to say, Hey, I'm away from my computer.
I'm doing this, I'm doing that. I will get to it tonight. Please wait.
[01:05:18] Danielle: Yeah, that's usually, yeah, you have to do that because they, a lot of these shoots are still last minute. They're trying to fill the spot pretty quickly.
[01:05:26] Mica: So what is exciting you right now in work in life? How might that sneak into your next shoot?
[01:05:34] Danielle: I'm having a lot of fun doing test shoots right now because I am toying with getting into beauty styling and I wanted to see how I liked that.
I actually post some new pics today from my first beauty test shoot, but I'm doing another one tomorrow. And it was fun. It was really fun. I don't have to cook anything, but I can still make pretty things and be creative. Also, makeup is just like fun [01:06:00] and pretty and colorful. So that was, that's fun. I'm really looking forward to that and to, I don't have any page shoots coming up at the moment that I'm super excited about.
They're just those ones that are just work. But I'm looking forward to doing projects for myself that I wanna explore. So, maybe lining up some more test shoots in the next few weeks. Test shoots can be expensive, so I like to space them out because all that money comes out of your pocket. You can do returns if you're lucky.
But yeah, I think that's what's coming up that I'm excited about. I'm excited about work picking up. I have faith that it will 'cause it's been a little slow and I'm excited about maybe exploring other avenues in the food industry that might allow me to not be freelance one day. I love freelancing so much, and I love the fact that I'm not tied down by anything and I can do whatever I want, but some stability might be interesting if I could find [01:07:00] the right space.
So I don't know. I think those are the things test shoots are. Those are all exciting things, I think. Yeah.
[01:07:09] Mica: I wanna ask one last question. Where can the listeners find you? Where can they buy a ceramic mug from you? How can we support you?
[01:07:19] Danielle: Oh man. My Instagram is Danielle Campbell food. Let me just make sure that's right, 'cause I recently changed my Instagram name and it's con Yes, it's Danielle Campbell Food and the link on my Instagram leads you to everything to my website, my portfolio, my recipes, and my ceramics. So go crazy.
[01:07:45] Mica: Yay.
Thank you so, so much for being on the show and for sharing everything. Like I've said this, and I'll keep saying this with every interview that I do, [01:08:00] this is absolutely one of my favorite conversations, but this one just felt so much deep because of, we have so many things in common and I'm like, I feel like I'm talking to a bestie that is like right there next to me.
So thank you for just being so open and transparent with everything.
[01:08:17] Danielle: It's been great, and I really appreciate you having me on.
[01:08:23] Mica: This episode is written and produced by me, your host, Mica McCook. Like this episode, give us a five star review on Apple Podcast and subscribe to the Savory Shot wherever you get your podcast.
Or follow me your host, Mica McCook, on Instagram at Mica dot McCook. Or you can follow the podcast on Instagram at a Savory Shot podcast. If you have any questions, comments, or would like to be featured on the show, email us at [01:09:00] podcast@thesavoryshot.com.