Mica: [00:00:00] Welcome to the 57th episode of The Savory Shot. Dang, y'all, we are three episodes away from 60 episodes. That's pretty awesome. Y'all know who I be? I'm your host with The Boast, Mika McCook. I'm a food photographer based out of Austin, Texas. I cannot start this show without first giving thanks. Every day is Thanksgiving over here at the Savory Shot.
I just want to thank y'all, the listeners. This show wouldn't exist without you. Thank you so much for your time. If this is your first time listening to the show, thank you so much for taking a chance for jumping on the hot mess express as I like to call it. It means everything to me that you're giving this show a chance.
I hope you show up for the next episode. And if this is your 57th time joining us, welcome back. Thank you so much [00:01:00] for joining me again.
Now that we've got that out the way y'all, I can't wait to introduce. Our next guest, so I won't, without further ado, I'd like to introduce y'all to Rachel Steiner. Rachel is an e commerce, food and beverage, entrepreneur. and product photographer with over 10 years of photography experience.
She is skilled in food styling, recipe development, prop sourcing, shooting, and editing. She's worked with numerous clients to create content that aligns with their vision. This episode, was packed. We talked about everything from learning how to navigate your career as you transition, discovering what path is right for you, whether it be photography or something else.
We talked about overcoming creative blocks and self doubt to build confidence in yourself [00:02:00] as a photographer, because when you're a freelancer, you got to gas yourself up, baby, no one else is going to do it for you.
So you have to believe in yourself more than everyone else around you does. We talked about embracing mistakes. We all make mistakes and it's okay. Before we get into that, grab your coffee, grab your water, your cocktail, if it's been that kind of day or been that kind of morning.
I don't know what time you're listening to this episode. Grab your beverage of choice kick back and Let's start the show.
[00:03:00]
Mica: I just want to, I want to start off by thanking you for coming on the show.
Rachel: Yeah. Happy to be here.
Mica: Yay. Yay. So, this is the question that every food photographer has been asked ever in the history of photographism. What first interested you in food photography?
Rachel: So from the beginning I love food. I always have. I started out in fashion after I graduated college. I had a job at Jones New York Nine West in the e commerce space. From there I went to a different e commerce place where I started dabbling in more product photography. It could be jewelry, it could be scarves, just like anything, a different assortment of things. That was where I really started food styling and connecting food and product together.
[00:04:00] And from there, it was my mom who was convincing me to go to culinary school. I worked in a few test kitchens, I found my way into food photography, burgeoning all of the things I've done in my now 11 year career. I'm really bad at math, I'm sorry.
Mica: That makes two of us or three of us. I don't know. We're bad at math. So
So you were in culinary school, what do you remember about the first day of class? What was that like?
Rachel: It was actually a part time school. It was in Manhattan. I was living in Jersey at the time, and it was called the Natural Gourmet Institute, and so it was actually a primarily plant based school, a vegan curriculum which in itself is awesome. So it was part time, so I was still working. I'm trying to remember the very first day.
I remember we had to be in uniform, of course, we had our hats, we had our chef coats, we had our chef pants. I want to say the first day was knife skills, [00:05:00] and all of the chefs that I learned from were amazing, The first feeling was kind of like, oh, this is actually, this is where I'm supposed to be.
It felt like I had actually found the right path.
Mica: You said that your mom encouraged you to go into culinary school. Were you in a transition where like photography was going good or you were just wanting something different?
Rachel: It was a, a longer conversation of, I am not easily convinced, I will say, in any aspect of my life. I am on the more stubborn side, if I'm being honest. I was definitely in a transitional period where I wasn't happy with what I was doing. I was feeling stuck. Just in the role I was in and the place I was at. Didn't really know what I wanted to do next or where I wanted to be. I knew I liked the food elements. I can't remember the conversations honestly but I remember there being a few where we had talked about it and it was finally like, okay, this is now the time. You're not happy, You [00:06:00] need to find something else and you need to find who you are in a sense because I had gone to college for photography and that had been what I was doing since then.
And that was up until I went to school in 2017 to 2018. So, it was just finding that different path.
Mica: It's scary but exciting when you're in that transition period.
I did the college thing, went for theater and that I was on track to becoming a teacher and that didn't work out.
And then I was in limbo for so long. I knew that I wanted a creative career. But I also didn't want to starve and be homeless and, have to choose between comfort and survival.
So when food photography, was it an instant love? Or a gradual this is something I'm good at and I enjoy it, so I'm going to keep doing it.
Rachel: So when I went to culinary [00:07:00] school, I honestly thought that I was going to leave photography behind. I didn't think that was going to be my career because I had such that transitional moment of, Oh, I'm really so unhappy. Is this right for me or am I doing the right thing? And so when I was in school I wanted to be in a test kitchen.
I wanted to be a recipe developer. I wanted to use the visual skills that I had learned through photography and my jobs prior to going to school to inform that side of my brain. And after school, I was actually lucky enough to work in a few test kitchens. I learned really quickly that I was wrong. It didn't work out.
And after that, I worked in a cheese shop where I live now. That kind of just brought even more food knowledge to my attention.
Once I realized that the Test Kitchen path wasn't the right way for me, and then I had worked in that shop, the pandemic happened. And I was like, trying to start up freelance, trying to start just like messaging businesses. Is this something you're looking for?
How can I personally, put these pieces [00:08:00] together. I ended up working, getting a full time remote job for an agency where those pieces were put together for me in a sense, where I was developing recipes, shooting content, editing content, styling, retouching, because it was all remotely, all from my house.
Right next to me, I have a whole surface library, I just have all of that stuff in my house and from there, that was where the wheels started turning oh, this is actually something I can do, something that's possible, and how do I keep going?
Mica: What keeps you excited about food photography, about photography in general? I asked this because I'm part of a book club and we read this book called I Should Have Been Dead by Rory Launder and he is a recovering addict. He went to culinary school.
At the top of his game in his career, he was working at like the top fancy five star restaurants. And while he was in recovery, he got a job at a diner and the diner was just shocked that someone of his [00:09:00] caliber was going to work for them.
His perspective was it doesn't matter if I'm in a five star restaurant or if I'm in a little neighborhood diner, cooking is what I love. Cooking is what I do. It doesn't matter. I really connected with that.
So what keeps you excited about photography today?
Rachel: I think today it's about the storytelling. It's really important as a photographer in this world where we are constantly bombarded with images all day. Consciously, subconsciously, that it's just really important to have a way to stand out in a sense that relates to people. Where it's not just the content machine, it's not just like cranking out 20 images that are just like cookie cutter same thing.
It's how to relate the food or products or both that it has a meaning, a message. At the end of the day, of course, the objective is usually [00:10:00] to sell the product. However, how can that become intertwined with that relatability?
Mica: It's such a challenge, like with Instagram. And I think a couple of years ago, I really gave it like the boy scout try where I was like really pumping things out.
It became way too much for me. And I didn't want to call myself a creator.
Am I creator? Am I a photographer? When I'm on Instagram, I really struggle with with what I am there versus out in the open where I can openly and say yes I am a photographer.
Rachel: The term content creator is a new term. It's not in society. It doesn't really mean photographer, at least to me. It's exactly what you're saying. It's two different things. The way we use social media these days, the way we use even the internet these days, the way we promote ourselves, the way we view other creators, It almost can become divisive too. I can't remember when Instagram came out, but I know [00:11:00] when I graduated college, it wasn't like this.
Mica: I feel like Instagram has forced people to create differently. Photographers specifically, it's forced us to create in a way that we normally wouldn't. It just doesn't feel so genuine. Before I used to share photos that I was just really excited to share.
In 2021, when I was really trying to like, everything was just so planned. It became a different kind of pressure. I wasn't really sharing work that I was excited about.
Mica: I was sharing work that was getting more engagement from past posts. So it was like just this hamster wheel of continuous like crap.
Rachel: I remember when I graduated, I remember looking through food magazines and pulling inspiration that was where I still have pages ripped out of the photos I liked, and that was where, I remember first seeing oh, this is this is cool. This is possible.
Mica: What are your [00:12:00] favorite food magazines?
Rachel: I don't know that I subscribe to any more these days. However, I really loved Saveur and Food and Wine. I think their style, their photography style was just so different than anything I had really thought about before. I've always had a travel bug, too, and so just relating the travel, the food, the wine I guess it comes down to the story.
I've always looked for that story, just didn't realize it.
Mica: Even now, like digital's great, online magazines, great, but, there's just something so magical and amazing about holding a magazine and seeing it and feeling it. As a photographer, I have a much deeper appreciation, knowing the effort that went into getting this gorgeous photo into place.
So you do test shoots for your personal portfolio.
Mica: What is that process like? How does an idea come [00:13:00] up and then it becomes an actual shoot?
Rachel: I think it depends on my mood sounds bad, but usually I will either see something or see a technique or see something on Instagram itself and be like, how do I do this? How do I translate it to me? Because you don't want to copy someone else's work, of course, that's not okay.
How do I become inspired by this in a way that is going to better my skills, better my way of thinking. I think of it like a puzzle, where I see a dish that I want to recreate and add motion to it. I see a product that I think would be awesome to shoot in this color scheme.
I do a lot of mood boards for test shoots, I definitely have a few that have not happened yet hopes and dreams some day, but just pulling all of these images together to when I have the time. How do I tell that story of that product or [00:14:00] recipe. I I used to do a lot more personal recipe development, I haven't done that as much these days. But if it's a dish that looks really good, like dinner or something that I make, which doesn't happen a lot if you're eating the food, actually, you're not going to want to shoot it.
Sometimes it's like a piece or a component. I'll quick get the camera out or something and just try and shoot something just to keep my brain fresh. But the planned ones are more of a puzzle piece of how do I make it attainable or purposeful for my next steps.
Mica: I wonder how does a recipe develop? When do you know that it's ready for other people to try? What's your process like when you develop a recipe?
Rachel: So if we're talking more commercial work. I think work that I do for clients is very much. Here's an ingredient. Here's an idea. Here's a concept There's a client involved, of course, so it's what do you send us a couple ideas just like bare bones ingredient list [00:15:00] like a salad for summer using a, specific parmesan cheese and something bright and colorful.
From there, I would come up with a couple ideas, kind of bullet point them out. I wouldn't actually develop it yet. Once it's approved or selected, then I would make it first, test it, make sure it tastes good. Depending on the recipe, baking requires a lot more tests than a salad does per se.
But it's just making sure writing it down is very important as you're going, just so someone could follow it. Because if I make it, I don't write it down, and I make it again, and I don't write it down, how am I going to tell someone how to do it? Because they have to be able to read it and understand it in a way that would make sense to someone else, that's very important,
personal use, I think my husband has definitely tasted a lot of not so good things. I hope a lot of good things. He's the most wonderful person. The amount of support in everything I do is unmatched. He gives a lot of advice and [00:16:00] support when it comes to the recipes too.
Just like this is, I wouldn't say he says this is bad. It's more. I think this could have this or this instead in a loving way. Yeah, I would say he helps a lot with that too, just testing.
Mica: I love that's a ride or die right there. Thank you on behalf of all the food people for trying out the recipes. You mentioned that he works at B& H. Is he a photographer as well?
Rachel: Yes, he's a photographer, video, audio. He does everything and he does it all so well. He also writes just to add that to the bucket. We met in college actually, so we were both photography majors.
Actually he's not gonna like that. I think he was a video major. We were both in the photo video program, let's put it that way. Because they both had photo in the title.
Mica: That is so cool though. You both know the struggles behind freelancing. It's hard to explain to someone who doesn't do that on an everyday basis. You [00:17:00] mentioned earlier that you work remotely. Do you have a team that you work with?
Rachel: In terms of like, stylist, art director of that team? Most of the time, no. Some of my clients have been to my house and are really hands on if they're local, of course. But for the most part, I'm going to say, 95 percent of what I do because there are definitely photos I've produced that you have worked with a stylist I do myself.
Mica: That is challenging. How on earth do you keep your head intact?
Rachel: I have to write a lot stuff down, definitely. It’s been a process to figure out the most efficient way. The. With the recipe specifically, like any food photography, like we're saying, it's all of the pieces come together knowing how to prepare the food, where you're not actually cooking the recipe if it's, I'm going to say lasagna, because anything cheese is really involved you pre cook everything, Have everything ready to go, I have it on a sheet tray next to me you're building as you're [00:18:00] working. You have a heat gun ready, just making sure all your pieces are there. Have I had to run up and down the stairs six times? Yes, of course, because I forget stuff. Or something burns, or something breaks, and then you're like, Oh shoot, I have to go get another one. My studio's in the basement now, so the kitchen's upstairs. And, just with that, having a plan is key.
Organizing the shoots by, I need this raw first, I need this cooked next, just making sure you're not, I cooked everything. Oh shoot, I have to go get more. I do all my own prop shopping, I do my own styling, I do work with a retoucher sometimes, depending on the content, but most of the time I am editing my own stop motions photos.
What else do I do? I shoot, of course.
Mica: I was looking at your website shortly before, and I was losing my mind over all of them, but, oh, it's, it was this one. It's the cheese and you're like putting balsamic on these little crostinis.
Rachel: That was probably one of the hardest ones I've done, and I really appreciate that, [00:19:00] just because of the angle change. That's the camera, so at the time I had just a tripod, a manual tripod, and so it was like, unscrewing it manually to be like, okay, I want to go a little bit lower, a little bit lower. Let's figure this out, how do I do this, so that was not in Photoshop, that was in camera. And then editing out a lot of wonky shots in between, just being like, how do I make this seamless transition, but that one was really cool to do.
Mica: That puts a whole new perspective. Like, See, this is like a five second clip, but knowing everything that went into it, and it does, it looks so seamless.
So speaking of challenging photo shoots, what's been one of the most challenging photo shoots you have done?
Rachel: Every photographer has the categories that they're really good at, that they love to do. There's the categories that you can do just it's like the bread and butter. It's like you can do it very quickly, like e commerce, anything on white I can knock out very quickly. I want to say it was two years [00:20:00] ago, I took on a front of packaging shoot, like a hero for a box and for me, that was. I should have been working with a stylist in hindsight, because it's very, I had not done that kind of work before, and it was absolutely on me for not putting it together that, needed that amount of styling versus not the stuff I do doesn't but it just is such a different subset of photography that very much one shot can take all day and should take all day because it's literally the product in the store.
The project didn't end up working out, which is okay. I think if there's anything I've learned a lot, of course, over my career, it's to know when you're out of your element and it's not going to benefit the client. The responsibility kicks in and you just have to have that conversation of, I think that this might not go the way we thought it was going to go. Open communication is so [00:21:00] important.
I should have known better and it's on me for not doing the full research, just knowing when to have a conversation if it's going that way.
Mica: You hit it on the nail about the open communication and I feel like in, if anyone does go to photo school they should also take a few communication classes because.
Rachel: And business.
Mica: Business.
Oh, yes, business. Communication. In addition.
I learned pretty quickly that my communication skills were lacking and there were certain conversations that I just wasn't comfortable having. And a lot of it centered around budget and I'm such a people pleaser that I just want to say yes to everything and to everyone. And then I just get overwhelmed in the middle of the shoot and just realizing, shit,
Yeah. No, I definitely.
Rachel: Yeah.
I think too, with people pleaser tendencies, I can lean that way for sure. And I think there's a balance where [00:22:00] you are working for a client. It's less people pleasing. It's they're paying you to, to, do a job, right?
They don't have to apologize. Obviously if they're rude, different story, but if they're asking for something that was discussed and you didn't do it or forgot they have every right to bring it up and say, wait, where's this? Didn't we talk about this? Having shot lists is so important. Having prop lists, Prop budgets, just knowing everything you need ahead of time just to make sure that communication is there.
Mica: I'd like to add other classes that people should take an addition. Maybe it's not a class. It should be a class, but like, how to de escalate situations when things don't go according to plan. How do you handle when things don't go accordingly in a shoot?
Rachel: I know I said it already, but just the communication. If you're trying to DIY something never wait until shoot day to try it, because I have done that and it never goes well. One [00:23:00] example that comes to mind right now, I tried to DIY.
Yeah, it was like a riser I was trying to DIY and it just did not look good. I got it on set and it just didn't fit the match and I remember I must have emailed or called a client I was like, this is not like it just it's you're not happy. I can tell I want to make sure you're happy because it's important to get it, right?
And so do you think it's okay if I try something else? Do you have the time, like in your timeline, you're in the budget, if there's a little bit more, just to get something else, just to make sure that it's the vision you actually wanted. And the answer was yes, and it worked out awesome. With that, you foster a good client relationship where they understand that you want to make it work for them.
You want to make their product look good. You want to do what they asked and recognize that it's not working. How do you fix it? You don't just go into a panic. Being like, I don't know what to do. You have to kind of step up and say, this was not a good idea. [00:24:00] How do I pivot quickly?
Google something very quickly. Here's four ideas. Which one do you want to do? I think we should do this one cause it's the fastest, but also there's a more expensive option that might be really good too. What would you like to do? And go from there.
Mica: What you said earlier about you told your client I can tell that you're not happy with this, I think it's such a brave and vulnerable thing to say.
It's Cuing in to like people's body language and their facial expressions.
And you can tell if they're really excited about something versus when they're like, okay.
Rachel: Exactly, and then it's not, you can tell when that happens, and it's just not, it, like you said, from one shot to the next, when they're so excited, then it just, the energy goes way down, you're like, hang on, what can we do?
Even remotely, you can tell.
Mica: You've mentioned a few things that like in hindsight, you would have done differently, should have done differently. What's one thing that you wish you knew when you started out as a [00:25:00] photographer?
Rachel: How quicklyy everything changes. Our industry is so unpredictable. Did I really think 12 years ago I would be doing this as my career? No. I didn't know. The sky's the limit, and I
Wish I had known how long, it would have taken me to
become confident in myself.
I just crossed that bridge, maybe even last year. Cause it's one thing to, be told your work is really good, but also to believe it, and to believe in yourself, believe in just believe you can do it.
I think it took me a long time to get to that point. In my professional career, I have had a lot of full time jobs, and I was laid off from two different jobs in one calendar year. It didn't feel great. It was a pretty difficult time mentally.
But after the second time it happened, that was really when it hit me. I had met a lot of really amazing people at that last job. And through that, and my husband again, just being there for me every [00:26:00] single step of the way. Just finally clicked Oh, I can do this. I turned my business into an LLC and I just went full speed from there.
Mica: You hit it on the nail about it taking time and years before you feel like completely confident in your abilities and yourself. So what happened that you started to feel more confident?
Rachel: Honestly just as the work I was creating, I could see it making more sense to me. I don't know if that makes sense. If a client came to me with an idea, I felt good about saying, okay, here's what we can do. I could see five steps ahead now, as opposed to being trapped in my own head.
Instead of going into that panic, for lack of a better term, of, I have a shoot. Oh no, what do I do? What if I mess it up? I have a shoot. Oh, this is going to be good.
How do I make this awesome? I do something very cool for a living and I'm really lucky my husband has done so much for me [00:27:00] to be able to do this for my job and my livelihood.
Having someone in your corner who believes in you so much, I think that was so important too.
Mica: Oh, for show. I'm in the business of manifesting and putting positive energy and vibes out there. If there was, a dream brand right here, right now that you would want to work with, what brand would that be?
What project would that be that we can also throw that one out there too.
Rachel: That is an excellent question that I should have been prepared for actually.
Mica: Just, it just popped up in my head, so there wouldn't have been any time to prepare.
Rachel: No, I usually, I will say people usually ask me what my favorite thing to shoot is or my favorite food is. But okay, if I, there was a brand that. The first one that came to mind is, Graza olive oil.
Mica: Yes.
Rachel: I love their products. I love all of their work. I love, it's just it's brilliant. It really is.
Mica: And it's [00:28:00] good.
Like, um, you should I don't know if you've tried it with rosemary sourdough bread?
Rachel: Not, I'm gluten free, unfortunately,
but,
Mica: Man, okay okay what.
I'm sure, Any bread, because it really won't work with anything, but so with with gluten free bread, with some mozzarella, like a slice of fresh mozzarella, a little tomato, and a little basil, and then you sprinkle on top.
I'd like to close out this interview with what's on the horizon. Is there a project that you feel excited for?
Rachel: Yes. I'm excited to be back working a little bit. I took some time off when my son was born. I have awesome clients that supported me and I'm still continuing to work with, so thank you. I think I'm excited for just continuing to grow and learn and just see how the industry evolves as I am this kind of, [00:29:00] with my new mindset, with my new role in life, especially with the relationship with food. It opens the door to a whole new open mind, a whole new way of thinking and how to bring that to other people to translate it.
Mica: One of the other things that I love about food photography is changing relationships with food and how people consume it. Changing the relationship with food. That's definitely a good mission to have. You mentioned earlier about you're excited about how things are evolving trends, things like that.
What trends are you towards these days?
Rachel: I think it's trending towards reality. I think food has had it's fantastical moment, it's unattainable moment. It's had it's, boring moment for lack of a better term. So often it feels like brands jump on the same, like a sea of sameness where [00:30:00] everything starts to look identical, and it's then it starts to break apart. But I think it's still creating these worlds that people can live in, but also making sure that someone can actually see themselves in it. How do we get people to see themselves in this world? Food is about coming together at the end of the day. It's comfort, memories, conversation, it's so important that there's so much to do in a photo.
When you think about it, it's all of those things.
Mica: Oh, for sure. And what I was going to say is just how excited I am that food is also taking on a It's, it's going back to its roots. People are genuinely interested in how something is made.
For any new photographers that are listening today.
Mica: What message would you have for them if they are struggling to find their confidence and find themselves in this [00:31:00] photography world?
Rachel: Don't be afraid to reach out to other photographers to talk to. It doesn't even have to be about photography. Having someone tell you their experiences, having someone help you through an experience. There's a lot of nice photographers out there.
I've been fortunate to meet definitely a lot of them. Don't be afraid to tell your story. Don't be afraid to try something. If it doesn't work out, that's okay. You're going to make a lot of mistakes and that's okay. Do I make mistakes every day? Yes. Will I continue?
Likely, yes but with that confidence comes the acknowledgment that's part of the game. You're not going to be perfect. Nobody's perfect and even with the social media expectation to be perfect, that's just not a reality.
Mica: I want to thank you so much for being on the show for taking time out of your schedule and, for dropping some wisdom on us.
Rachel: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure to be here.
[00:32:00]