Mica: [00:00:00] Welcome. To the 52nd episode of The Savory Shot, a podcast about the art and soul of working in food photography. Y'all know who I be. I'm your host with the most, Mica McCook. I am a food photographer based out of Austin, Texas. First, I want to thank y'all, the listeners, so much for tuning in your support means everything.
It means the world to me. It keeps this podcast going strong. So thank you so much. Whether it's your first time joining us or your 52nd time joining us, thank you so much for taking time out of your day, but y'all let's talk about today's episode. It's a doozy. We have a fantastic episode lined up for y'all with a special guest who brings a unique perspective to the world of food photography.
If you've ever [00:01:00] dreamed of combining the beauty of natural light with the art of food photography, then y'all, you're in for a treat. This is going to be your root beer float, if that floats your boat.
But y'all, without further ado, I introduce you to Alana O'Neill. Alana is a designer and photographer from. I don't know why I struggle to say this, from Maui, Hawaii. I have to say it really slow, Maui, Hawaii. I tried. She's from Hawaii, y'all. But Alanna grew up on a farm in Vermont. She uses natural light to capture the beauty of outdoor entertaining and slow living, inspired by her travels in Europe. Paris and New York city.
She [00:02:00] loves celebrating local food and culture. Alana has written two cookbooks on seasonal outdoor recipes. She also has a mentorship program where she mentors new food and lifestyle photographers to help them find their unique style. In this episode, Alana and I deep dive into her creative process, the influence of her Vermont roots, and how her travels have shaped her photography.
We also talk about the importance of natural light, the art of being resourceful, and the magic of storytelling through food photography. So I'm not gonna waste any more time. Grab your drink, grab your tea, grab your coffee, your cocktail, whatever it is, grab it and let's start the show.
Welcome to The Savory Shot, a bi weekly show about the art and soul of working in food photography. I'm your host, Mika McCook. Every other Wednesday, I [00:03:00] sit down to chat with professionals in the industry so that you feast on only the best tips and strategies in the business. All right, y'all, let's get started.
Mica: Alanna, I want to start off by saying thank you so much for being on the show. It's just such an awesome thing that you [00:04:00] want to share your story with us. So thank you for being on the show.
Alanna: Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here and share a little bit of my story with you and your audience.
Mica: I am ready to get right into it. If you are, then let's get this show on the road.
Alanna: Okay. Sounds good.
Mica: So I want to start this conversation by asking you, what three adjectives would you use to describe your work and why those adjectives?
Alanna: This one, okay, this takes a second to think about because I'm so hard on myself. Like it's so hard to like self reflect and think about what your work feels like or looks like because you think about it one way and then you see it in a different light. But I think for the three words or adjectives would be natural. Let me see. Gentle or like sensitive and reflective. [00:05:00] I think because I feel like a lot of my work feels very nostalgic, but also has. It's very much grounded in nature and personal stories and like a reflective sensibility. I think that's where I would go.
Just from my values of my background and growing up, nature has been such a huge part of why I love photography and who I am as a person that I'm so drawn to including that into my food photography.
Mica: You mentioned reflective. I remember one of the interviews that you did, you talked about growing up in Vermont and your mom having a kitchen garden and that like having a huge impact on you. What was that childhood like of seeing your mom growing everything and bringing that to the kitchen and seeing something from the seed to the sprouting. What was that [00:06:00] like?
Alanna: Honestly, it was so rewarding and underappreciated as a kid because it was just a given that what we ate and grew was from the garden or what she baked or what she felt like baking in the moment. So we were very like spoiled and naive and thinking that this is just how it is. It also taught us to be really resourceful of, "Okay we can't use these carrot tops, we can't eat them, but we're not going to throw them away.
We'll make a stock out of it or we'll make the beet peels a stock or, if it's like an ugly tomato, we'll eat it up and still make it look pretty and delicious. So not never like waste anything." It was a really romantic and idyllic childhood because we were constantly outside from dawn till dusk, barefoot, even if it's snowing, like we'll be outside.
It just made us really feel really grounded. And I feel like nature and food, like brings [00:07:00] that sense of confidence too, because you feel rooted in your place and your sense of place and being that it gives you a really good head on your shoulders and maybe a little naive, but I don't think that's a bad thing as a kid.
So yeah, that's the background. Seeing my mom grow, like maple syrup, not that you grow maple syrup, but you boil it and, growing our fresh vegetables and just, it's always present. It was always there. So the kitchen was a place to be in the garden was a place to be.
And I think that's why I'm drawn to food so much.
Mica: You describing your work as reflective, I just, I love that word, that description because we do need to go back and remember where our food comes from.
It is just really nice to go back and remember food, vegetables, nature, all of that. I'm [00:08:00] like, who has a time machine around here? Can we go back? I wanna go with you to your childhood.
Alanna: Yeah, it was so special and it really makes you think. As an adult, we're drawn to being very convenient and getting your whole foods pickup order ready and DoorDash and we don't have DoorDash here at Hawaii, but it just, there's such a disconnect between what we consume and where it comes from.
And I think rooting back to my childhood and nature and being on the farm, it really instills those wholesome values of appreciating what is given to us by the earth and how we can sustain ourselves in a sustainable and healthy way. Yeah, that's always the cornerstone of my work.
I also like how your mom taught you nothing gets thrown away. Here in Austin, there is a restaurant that has like a community fridge for people to drop food off. That community [00:09:00] fridge is great because it provides meals for people in that community. Every time after a photo shoot. I'm left with all this food. I go drop that off because I'm like, I'm not throwing this away. This is going to get used. Someone needs this. When I have a lot of food leftover that I cooked it's such a hard thing for me to throw it away. I'll just give it away to someone at the dog park. If it does go bad, go into compost or something.
But yeah, it's really important to like, to stay resourceful, and don't think it as a commodity. Like it is something that you nourish your body with and it's not just fuel. It's, from the earth that was given to us and shouldn't be treated as something we throw out unnecessarily.
Mica: Growing up the way that you did with the childhood that you did how did these experiences shape you and the way that you approach food photography?
Alanna: We grew up so simply. We didn't have much. We didn't have a TV. We didn't have a shower, we had a bathtub. [00:10:00] So we were like very simple and it really taught me to be resourceful. If I don't have the budget to buy props or buy a backdrop or buy a new lighting equipment.
What can I use within my means and what's around me? So maybe that means I take the old barn door from the barn. And use that as the rustic backdrop for the table. Or I'll go through my mom's antiques collection and just pull out random things to practice with.
Or I'll use like a linen cloth that I found, in the linen closet. That's, was dusty, but needs just a little ironing and it's fine. There's just like little things like that I know like a lot of new food photographers get so hung up on investing on so much money on gear and equipment.
It's honestly, the stuff that I use the most often is things that I've collected, whether it's passed down or it's like an antique or [00:11:00] used. Or it's something from like a craft store, like just a piece of black and white foam core, the board. There's so many ways to be resourceful as a new photographer.
Mica: My gosh, you are speaking gospel. I don't know how many times I've told new photographers. You got light, you've got a camera, you got some food in your fridge, you got some props around your house. You've got a photo shoot.
Like when you started approaching photography, did you feel like you needed to have everything right at first?
Alanna: At first I felt a little intimidated by seeing a lot of the more commercial food photography, just because you Instagram is new that and they like you go on and see all these like beautifully styled and lit photos and I got a little intimidated, but it's like, I was like, okay that's not me, but I'm going to try what I got, and make it work.
So I did feel a little pressure, [00:12:00] but then budget's budget and it's you can't bend it if you're just starting out. So it's I can't afford a 3, 000 dollar backdrop set up. So it's I'm going to as well just use this beautiful window that I have here. What you really need is just a beautiful natural light, a decent lens. You could even just use a 600 dollar camera as long as you have a really nice, decent lens. And some fruit and some props with some character. I think you really have the makings of a little story foundation for a shoot or a portfolio piece.
It really doesn't take much. When we are resourceful and when we're limited, I think that's when our creativity really shines and we have the ability to push ourselves more and grow in those moments when we are restricted.
Mica: Absolutely 110 bazillion thousand percent agree with you. It really like ties into the statement of less really is more. You really do get so much more. And I feel [00:13:00] like being out in nature, being out on a farm, that natural golden light, that's just something you can't create in a studio.
You just can't. It just has to be authentically in nature.
Alanna: No, I totally agree. And also, we underestimate the power and ability that we have to find it, whereas it's all about patience. Patience to find the right light and the right moment and just waiting for that golden hour. And sometimes I'm waiting for what seems like hours and hours when it's reality is just like 30 minutes, just for the sun to break over the cloud and then to light the scene.
But natural light is truly your best friend when it comes to creating like authentic feeling moments in food photography.
Mica: What's a memorable experience where waiting for the perfect light really paid off?
Alanna: Oh gosh, there's so many. Because Hawaii, [00:14:00] the climate, yeah it's sunny, but it changes so much because it's one minute could be raining and then the next minute it's sunny.
For my cookbooks, I shot the majority of them outside. So what I would do is I would set up a table, out in my backyard and then capture and wait for the right moment.
Cause I really wanted the dappled light effect because it's a book about picnics and you want to feel like it's sunny and a cheerful, like playful energy and light. So, I would wait until the cloud would pass over, and then I would run outside climb up the ladder and shoot, and then, boom, then done, and then the storm comes, and then the rain comes, and then, everything's destroyed. Shooting outside for my cookbook was a challenge. Even in Hawaii, because I'm constantly looking out the window wait, is it cloudier? Is it cloudier? It's not. And then my hair is like this wild rat's nest because I'm like in the tree above shooting down [00:15:00] at the picnic spread.
But those are the moments that really count. It's like you can't replicate good light and it's really worth waiting around for.
Mica: I imagine that you look at like the weather channel or like some kind of app. Is there really any way to anticipate what the day is going to be like? I imagine you having an umbrella just in case it rains having a windbreaker in case it's windy and then just having backup plan upon backup plan.
Alanna: Yeah, that's how it is. Cause a lot of this stuff I did for my book was outside and it's just, Yeah, it's out of your control. But the thing is I would go into the shoot or the day like, Okay, I need to shoot this recipe.
How do I want this recipe to look and feel like? Some days it's overcast and it's cloudy and now it looks like a big softbox over everything. You just have to go with the flow and it's okay, fine. I'll just relinquish control. This is not the look I wanted, but I've put all the time and energy and creating the recipe and [00:16:00] shooting in the dish and preparing it all.
I 'm not going to spend another day to wait again, unless it's absolutely like the cover or something, but yeah, that's just like shooting outside. You really have to let nature take its course and like work hand in hand. You'd be like, okay, like you're not going to cooperate with me today.
Then I guess this shoot is just what it's going to be. And this is just the light that it's going to be today. Sometimes you get these like really beautiful, like unexpected things that you can't plan or predict like a bird will fly into the frame or on the table, or the wind blows the flower petals across the table.
And it just looks so lovely and, beautiful, like you just can't plan those things and it really makes and breaks a shot. Sometimes you have to have room for spontaneous moments like that when you're shooting outside.
Mica: I love what you just said about relinquishing control because [00:17:00] I feel like photographers struggle with that. And they're like, Oh you take on artificial lights so that you can control your light. You can control everything about the shoot.
I feel like we need to relinquish control a little bit more and just let creativity flow through and when we're trying to control every single thing, it can be stifling.
Alanna: I think that's part of the thing about using natural light in general, it's like you really can't control it. If you're shooting indoors, say a portrait or something, there is a way so you can manipulate light and you can do the same thing outside. Sometimes if I don't particularly like the light, how it's falling on this picnic spread I did for my book, I'll hold a tree branch, and hold it over, so I create the dappled light that I want. Yeah, it's really about just letting go, and, embracing the beauty of the moment.
That's my theory about shooting outside.
Mica: One of the reasons why I [00:18:00] love Dutch art, classic art paintings is because a part of me knows that this beautiful, wonderful image was created with natural light and the imagination of the artist.
Alanna: Yeah, totally. And that's why I love natural light with food is because food is such a sensory experience Light just plays up on that feeling. Even if you're shooting like a still life like you said, like a Dutch master, like Caravaggio, where it's like very moody and there's like contrast and sharp shadows and kind of filters and drifts off into the darkness, like that's all natural light, but it's just a way of capturing food in a different way and feels different.
Mica: Oh my God, you mentioned Caravaggio and I just wanted to jump through the screen and give you the biggest hug. That's one of my favorite artists of all time.
Alanna: I just, I pull on his like inspiration, like his still lifes and like the way he does this, like the chiaroscuro, like I'm really been [00:19:00] getting into that more. Embracing the shadows and showing the not seen and how there can be mystery and just leaving the abyss and the darkness, because I'm such a natural light, I love bright light, but there is something to be said by just letting the shadows flow away from the bread or the cheese.
There's really a mystery to that.
Mica: So I wanna take it to an interview that you did with Persephone Social. I loved how she formatted that whole interview. I thought it was just really beautiful and it laid your work out very beautiful. But one thing that I loved about that interview is how you. We've been talking at length about using what you have around you to create art.
How can photographers, especially those who are just starting out, working with limited resources, how can they adopt this mindset to foster their creativity and [00:20:00] produce stunning work without relying on high end gear?
Alanna: Yeah, that's a really intimidating trap that new photographers go into is that they feel like they need to have this big wardrobe of props and tools and lenses and cameras and filters, and you really don't need much because I truly believe that what matters most is the ability to see and truly see light, understand light, and being able to capture a feeling or emotion about something.
The more beginners can hone in on their photographic eye and how they can really see moments of light and beauty, whether it's they're walking through their farmer's market and they see the little dew drops of tomatoes, or the flowers, or the way the cabbage is crinkled on the edges. Little details like that.
And just having to hone your eye [00:21:00] just will be with you for life. Like the more you can hone and craft in on the ability to see. And then secondly, use what you have. If you don't have a budget or if you feel like you're limited in what you have, I'm gonna be honest. I shot my cookbook with one lens.
I shot it with just a 50 millimeter prime lens and one camera I didn't have any fancy lighting. I didn't have any fancy backdrops. I didn't have a studio. I used things that I found online on Etsy. I borrowed from friends, I found some old wooden doors and wood planks. It's just like seeing around you and okay, this is what we've got to work with.
Like we can make it work. Let's just play and experiment. In terms of cultivating or creating a prop wardrobe or equipment, I think you just start with what you have. [00:22:00] You don't need to buy expensive gear. You can borrow from friends and you can happily trade with other industry professionals in your area, your field.
Maybe you could create a style shoot together where you both combine both of your skill sets and come up with a concept and then shoot it and photograph it. So you both have content and photos to keep from.
Mica: Oh man first of all, you shot a cookbook with one lens, prime lens, that is like the most impressive thing on the planet. Was it with both cookbooks or was it your first cookbook that you shot with the 50 millimeter?
Alanna: Yeah, I shot both with the 50 millimeter. Honestly I did because I couldn't afford a new lens at the time. So I was like, you know what, I've got a 50 millimeter prime lens 1. 4, I can work with this. Like this book was thrown at me to write. I pitched the idea, but the second book, they, my publisher was [00:23:00] like, how about this other book idea for outdoor entertaining? And I was like, okay I guess I'll take it on. It just comes down to being resourceful and using what you've got. And it worked out great. I have all the photos that I needed just with that one lens. It took a little bit more moving around and manipulating on my part.
So I had to maybe get up on the ladder instead. But, yeah, the first book was very personal to me because it was a collection of picnic recipes inspired by my childhood. Growing up on a farm, we really didn't have much to do other than be outside and play with animals or the horses.
And my mom, in order to get us out of the house, she'll say we're going on a hike, or we're gonna go on a snowshoe, we're gonna go skating, we're going to go to the lake. And she would put together a meal, like a little picnic, that's very humble and simple and wholesome of bread she made or sandwiches and nothing fancy at all.
Mica: And your first book, it's called The [00:24:00] Outdoor Table. When did The Art of Picnics come out?
Alanna: So the picnic book actually is the first one. That was the first one. That one is like the, I had a concept for that. Because I wanted to base it around the seasons. Just, like my parents and my mother did when we were young, we would go out every season.
Spring, summer, fall, winter, stick season, how we call Vermont, like mud season, we would be outside and every season is a wrap or every picnic has a little menu or some recipe suggestions and a story around it. that was the concept for that first one.
Mica: What surprised you about these two books that you didn't foresee when you first went into it looking back?
Alanna: I didn't realize how much work it is and they truly are a labor of love because the rewards are like, it's definitely like a personal project because everyone is like, Oh, I want to write a book. I want to write this. And [00:25:00] that's fantastic. That's wonderful. And I support everyone who wants to write their own cookbook.
But unless you have a really established audience and following, it's really hard to, make something from nothing. A lot of publishers won't give you an advance so you can actually support yourself while you're making the cookbook. So you have to really know why you're doing it and not that it's just like a monetary financial, thing to check off your box to do.
And so like for the first book, it was a definitely like a personal project of like it came from the heart and I really wanted to share the stories and these recipes. you have to really know why you're doing something because food's expensive and it adds up.
Especially in Hawaii everything's basically imported. The cost of things are more expensive. So shooting a book about a very slim budget is very challenging. So I encourage people of your [00:26:00] audience, if they are interested in shooting for cookbook or making their own, it's to really think deep and like, why, would I be okay shooting this?
On neither no budget or for very little or maybe just to have the returns far far like years down the line.
Mica: I will say that out of all the shoots that I've done, nothing felt more magical than holding an actual cookbook in my hands that I photographed. That's why I'm a big component of printing your work, because if it's on a screen, it just doesn't feel real.
But when you print your work out, there's just something different, something timeless about holding a tangible thing with your work on it. It just feels elevated and so special.
Alanna: Totally. Yeah. It's just something you really can't describe unless you've done it. It's just like, wow, like I shot this book. This is me, printed and published. It's like a big [00:27:00] deal for anyone. Or even if you print out one of your favorite image that you've shot and you've framed it on your wall. You can feel it and it's like wow like that's me. That's my work.
Mica: Oh, for sure. I want to take it to your career pivot. I love hearing about career pivots.
So take me to that moment in your life. What was missing in your life at that time, and how did photography fulfill that need?
Alanna: Yeah, soo this is a while back, but after I graduated college, I started in global studies in French. And then I went to Parsons and I studied fashion design in New York. And like every young person, you really don't know what you want to do. Years later, I, you know, I end up in Calvin Klein doing their runway collections. The hustle and bustle of New York City. It's so invigorating and it's so depleting at the same time. Coming from such a small town in [00:28:00] Vermont and a horse farm where I was surrounded by green grass and pasture and trees and flowers and animals like to just be living in the dirty streets of New York City. It was such a contrast to what my soul felt and when I needed. While I love fashion design and I appreciate fashion design. Working with like top end clients and like seeing your work on the runway is so it's definitely, it's just a surreal moment because so many people want to be doing this. Thinking it's like a dream job wow, you're a fashion designer. You're swatchingg fabrics, you're staying late, you're eating lunch at your desk. You're never seeing the sun besides the tiny half hour you have to go get your coffee. And there was just a part of me that was like, This isn't me. It was just like one of those moments inside that only you can know that this [00:29:00] voice is telling you this is not meant for you.
This, there's something more here. Like your soul, there's your soul's hurting. Like this is not it. And one day after it was the last season of Calvin Klein, it was like the final runway the spring season show. And I was like, okay, I'm done. This is it. I moved back home to Vermont. I settled and just took a year just to think of what does that, what do I really want to do?
And it boiled down to, I love beauty. I love art. I'm very sensitive. I'm very perceptive. I've always loved photography. It's just always something that's been in my background of my life. Because my mother was a photographer. But more of a hobbyist with like black and white. We had a dark room in our barn and we would be in there helping her develop film.
And so it was always there, but I always was interested in shooting animals or landscapes [00:30:00] or stars. I love nature like astrophotography too. So it was just always something in my background that I never thought I could do for work. The more I played with it and the more I just shot and practiced every day, I slowly realized like, this is something that I really enjoy doing.
This is just something I would do naturally, on my own. And then when coming to Hawaii, I know I felt guilty because I have this expensive fashion design degree from the top school in the world that people try to get into. Now I have to make this degree work for me when it's not aligned with my direction of where I'm going. I found a company in Hawaii that was doing active wear design. I made that work for a little while and I moved out to Hawaii. Having never been to Maui, the more I was surrounded by nature, and just the slow way of life, and the sun, and just being [00:31:00] in the raw elements of Hawaii, I was like, and I'm photographing, you know, like, all the time, it's like, how can I tie all my interests together?
So it was really like a moment of coming home and just like focusing on what I value and how I can fit that into the lifestyle I want because I knew that the lifestyle I was living in New York was not healthy for me and my soul.
Mica: I'm from Austin. I grew up in the city, but I went to college in San Angelo, Texas, which is much smaller city than Austin and it's in a very rural part of Texas.
It was hard to adjust, but I wouldn't trade it for anything because the friendships that I built there are just. still my closest friendships, but I know that I could not live in San Angelo for the rest of my life. But it was a good period [00:32:00] and the lessons that I learned from that I carry with me today. New York is a great place.
I'd love to visit it, but I don't think I could live there. I'd like to think I could, but I know myself.
Alanna: Yeah. To your point, it's like we go through so many seasons of life where one place fits us where we are in that moment, but that doesn't mean it's forever. And it's like a letting go of like this chapter and it's like, it's okay. Like that was that time. And that doesn't mean I have to completely disconnect and leave those friends or leave that connection to that place.
But it's just this is where I'm going now. Honestly, like New York taught me so much that I probably wouldn't have the hustle and the grit and the drive that I do if I didn't live there, because even now, some people are like, you walk so fast, just slow down.
I'm like, whoa. You can't take it out. Like I just walk fast. I'm going to Target, but I'm walking fast. There's bits of it you take it's like wherever you go you can take pieces and lessons from it and then [00:33:00] carry with you forward in your next chapter and I think New York really taught me to not only know and recognize the values and just the grit and persistence and the like I don't give a fuck like I'm gonna just keep emailing and plying and being super persistent on things because New York has that fuck you attitude of I'll send you a million emails and you're gonna reply and if you don't and you block me then Fine, but it's just you have to have that grit and drive like when you're just starting out and if especially if you're like an entrepreneur as a photographer, you need to have tough skin and I lived such a sheltered life on the farm that New York really taught me to toughen up in terms of you want something, you go after it and you get it whether it's writing your book. Whether it's starting your own business, moving to Hawaii if you want something, you, no one's going to give it to you, you have to really [00:34:00] find it and go after it. And then same with like, when I worked at Calvin Klein, to come back to this point is like, what I did for that is I would choose the photography images that would be on the backdrop for the runway, so I would curate all of the photos that would be the inspiration or the mood board for the collection.
So it's like you take these pieces of what you learned and what you have done in your past experiences and then use it to project you forward into your next chapter of life.
Mica: Oh my gosh, something you said earlier cracked me up so hard about New Yorkers like being fast walkers. Yeah. Because it's so true. So true. There's a YouTube video. I'll have to send it to you and I'll post it in the show notes. So everybody can enjoy this together, but it's a parody video where they call Johnny T at Johnny T's [00:35:00] advice on how to be a tourist in New York.
He says, if you're going to be out in New York, I need you to get out of the way between the hours of four and eight. Whatever you do, get out of the way. You want to take a picture of the Empire State Building? That's fine, but get out of the way.
And I'm like, that's all of New York.
Alanna: Yeah. I have to be careful of that too in Hawaii, where it's like there's a million tourists everywhere and I'm just like, get out of the way, I'm just going to Whole Foods.
Mica: You said something earlier that I just, I want to touch on about letting go of the guilt of getting a degree and then feeling like you need to do something with that degree, even if your heart isn't in it anymore, and it's not serving you anymore. I truly connected with that. So my question for you is what helped you with letting go of that guilt? If there's someone out there who is in a similar boat or a similar situation as us, what advice would you [00:36:00] give them to help them get over whatever guilt they may be feeling right now?
Alanna: Yeah. It's definitely a challenge to overcome because we feel guilty for maybe disappointing our parents or disappointing ourselves or the grief of letting go of a dream that we thought we were going to fulfill. And that's like the path and the trajectory we're on. And now we're on something completely different.
I think for me that guilt was just changing it and transforming it and seeing it in a different light of it's guilt, but it's, maybe it's a new door. Like maybe I'm opening a window, maybe instead of feeling guilty, I'm moving somewhere else. I'm going forward and through something. So there's a new opportunity.
And I keep coming back to the feeling like. I have one life, like life is so short. It's too short to feel guilty. It's too short to shortchange [00:37:00] yourself. It's too short to not be fulfilled and happy and work an unfulfilling job and a nine to five. It's too short to be shaving for animal skins for 3, 000 handbag all day long for someone who doesn't need it.
So like life is too short and we only have one and it's cliche, life is really what you make it and we may not seem like we have choices, we have choices to change and move the trajectory in our life.
And I think If I had kept going down that path of, I need to stick it out to, to make these loans worth it, I would feel such a resentment for not only myself, but just the life that I could have lived, the life that I could have. Created and envisioned
but what I do know is that if I kept going down that path, I would feel very empty and that's [00:38:00] not how I want to live this one life that I have.
Mica: Yes to all of that. Yes. To every single thing that you just said. One thing I've learned as far as like letting go of whatever guilt I had, and it was a lot of guilt is just knowing that everything that I learned in theater, everything I learned from that time in my life, I still use today as a photographer.
Alanna: Yeah. And it's also like a part of letting go of the guilt. It's to what you said about taking your skillset and your experiences onto your new path, like all those things I wouldn't regret what I did in New York. I wouldn't take back that experience because I learned so much, like all those, the fashion lessons, the creating bodices and tailoring and, creating mood boards, like all of that has influenced the work that I do now and my own perspective. The more we can turn that mucky yucky experiences [00:39:00] into gold and fuel it really makes you so unique because there's no one else like you and that's your unique experience and it's like your unique perspective as a photographer, because maybe there was someone who went to med school and now they're in photography.
What from your past experiences can you bring into the work you do now as a photographer from med school? So it's like changing and seeing things in a different light and how we can bring that into the new path that we're on.
Mica: I've had guests on here who have come from such interesting walks of life. DJ was an architect before she was a food photographer. Catherine Bernard was a waitress before she was a photographer and learned, how to build relationships with people, how to talk to people.
DJ mentioned how architecture impacts her art and how she uses a lot of angles in her food photography. With that being said, [00:40:00] what have you taken with you from the fashion world into your work as a photographer?
Alanna: In terms of fashion composition and color really translate over well into photography. And also just like the creative direction of a collection, especially the preparation and conception of the collection. It's so similar to a food shoot because it's okay, so what do we want this food shoot to be like?
What did we want it to feel like? What are we capturing? What do we need to shoot? What are the angles, what are the subjects? And it's like the same thing for a fashion collection. What is this inspired by? How does it feel? What do we want the person to feel like when they're wearing it?
What are the color schemes? Like all of the planning and pre pre process of planning something out for a collection. It translates so well into a food photography product shoot and just in photography in general, because fashion [00:41:00] It's more than just clothing and it's design.
Art is art and multiple mediums are still as art. So like color theory, composition even just sketching, like sometimes I'll sketch out a food shoot or a table. So okay, I want this here. I want the cup here. I want the pole here because I'm such a visual person. Then I can sketch out, okay, I want the table to look like this and I'll refer back to it when I'm in the shoot.
So I know okay, that's the sketch. That's what it's going to look like. And I've got an idea and in my mind before I go out and shoot. We would work with fashion models during live drawing classes. And you'd think what does it have to do with food or food photography?
But it has to do with everything because the body symmetry, like the lines, the model's hips and how the S curve and the C and all the lines doing the fashion live model drawing where it's like the third, she's in the [00:42:00] third of the frame. This all translate into photography because it's seeing your subject in a way and then translating it onto a piece of paper, which essentially then translates into your lens.
So it's related.
Mica: Oh, yes. Yes, it is. Something you mentioned just now, you talked about fashion, drawing the shots out. I love Fashion Runway and when they draw, they show the renderings, like what they're going to do. I think that's the coolest thing on the planet. You are literally creating something out of nothing.
What you're envisioning even if you're not a good drawer, just draw something and put it out there.
Alanna: Yeah, it's just giving you an idea like you don't need to be a master, masterpiece, our master artists just like I sometimes just take a scrap piece of paper, maybe it's like an envelope on my desk and just say like, Okay, I know the windows here, I'm going to put the plate there, lines this way, the fork this way, it helps. And even just another simple trick [00:43:00] too is, If you're not into drawing, just before you actually bring your camera over to the food scene, take a quick snap with your phone and just see, like, how does it look in your phone?
Oh, okay. I like that composition. And then just take a few snaps with your phone. Cause it's so much easier than your actual camera. And then you can refer back to it on your phone. When you're shooting the actual dish or recipe or whatever with your camera.
So it's like another little reference. If you don't want to draw something out, just sketch it out on your phone, just take a quick snap and then you can look back at it.
Mica: I want to close out today's interview and I'm sad that we're closing it out because I feel like I could talk to you forever. You mentioned how storytelling is central to your work.
What are some fundamentals of storytelling in food photography that can help elevate a photographer's work and connection with their audience? You touched on it a few minutes ago where you talked about composition and taking snaps with your [00:44:00] iPhone and drawing out your shots. Whenever you approach a photo shoot, do you already have a story in mind?
Or it's like, I want to create this feeling or I'm feeling this sort of way. I know that's a loaded question. So whichever part of it you want to answer, I'm totally game for.
Alanna: Okay. Yeah. I think storytelling is such an innately human thing and an experience that it really comes down to what makes a good photograph. What's the message here? What's happening? Because storytelling to me it's more than just conveying information there's something more.
It's not just, there's a piece of bread on a plate. It's someone ripped this bread because it just came out of the oven and it's slathered in butter and jam. There's crumbs on the table and there's tea stains from the old teapot, and there's the knives over here, and there's like butter on the knife, like [00:45:00] all these little things, they're so subtle, but it really makes the story, the frame come alive, and I think for me, why I love food photography and specifically is because it wants me to just jump right into the scene and like tuck in and dive right in and just get in there and mess it up.
It's like, how can we make this frame feel like a shot out of a life, and how can we make it feel authentic? I see a lot of food photographers be really precious about their styling of their food, where they are so careful. It's to place the knife just so, and the crumbs just this way, and the plate just this angle. And that's all well and good. And I do that too, but I don't get so hung up on the little details because there's a bigger picture here. There's bigger context. Where's this happening? Is this in Italy? Is this in Greece? Is this [00:46:00] in your backyard?
Is this at a family barbecue? Is this at a dinner? Dinner party in August on a balmy summer's night. We just create the story and that will help you style and compose the shot and give some context to the food and like what's happening. The one trick I can give for storytelling and for food photographers is if you think when you go into a restaurant and you walk past all the tables and empty tables, there's plates stacked, there's napkins tucked on the chair, there's some spilled wine, there's breadcrumbs, there's the salad, olive oil spilt on the white tablecloth. All of that says something, even though those patrons are not there anymore, like no one's sitting there anymore, but it still says something like the mood, the meal may be over, but there's still something there.
And so when I think of food styling, I think of okay, what if I create and style this scene? What's the story that I'm going to tell here? Act as if I'm cutting the bread, [00:47:00] I'm pouring the wine, I'm scooping up the soup or scooping up the stew, and then take a step back and then remove yourself, as if you just disappeared.
That's where it really feels authentic, as if you're actually getting in there, messing up the scene, acting as if you're enjoying this. Honestly, I'll like eat as I'm shooting the food because it makes it feel real. If I just get so precious about how I cut the cake.
It doesn't feel authentic and real. And I think the more you can actually engage and participate in the scene and then just step back as if you know, we're a ghost and just disappeared. It makes it feel like such a more compelling and engaging story for the viewer.
Mica: Oh, my gosh, when you were describing the bread and the butter, I was like, Oh, my God, I want that. But it just proves the point that you just made that a food [00:48:00] photographer's job is to take the simple act of eating and turning it into this experience.
Alanna: It's so simple. It's like we all innately know this because we see it all the time in our daily life.
Mica: When you. were developing as a photographer and bringing in that storytelling element, what were some things that helped you in the beginning?
What are some things that maybe helped you or was it something that just felt organic and natural to you?
Alanna: I think it's always been there since I was a girl, cause I've been such an imaginative child and always was into fairy tales and stories. So I'm just a naturally of storytelling type of person. But I think if you're, if you struggle with that and you're more of like a one track linear mind or more like logistical and practical, and you just think of the here and now and what needs to be done. I would just challenge [00:49:00] yourself to get more imaginative and playful and think of what if I move the knife over here and I place the bread and cut it in half and just let loose and put it on the plate and eat it.
Just didn't touch it and left it like just start asking yourself questions like what if I tried this or what if I tried that how can I stir my imagination up and then maybe it means that you look through cookbooks or you do a little research and kind of see what other work is out there to stir your imagination up.
But I think it's comes down to learn to play and have a more open relationship with food as a subject. It's something that as humans, we innately consume and we need, and it's part of our daily lives. And it's okay let's play with it.
Let's just see what happens if I move the dish this way and I move the candle over here does that feel like it fits the story that I wanted to create and share?
Mica: [00:50:00] Oh, man. What do you hope the listeners get from today's episode?
Alanna: Oh, boy. I think it has to come down to just trusting your intuition and knowing what's right for you. And if that's food photography, so be it. If it's painting, if it's art, if it's being an engineer, whatever it is, just stay true to you.
And if you love food photography, just be persistent and consistent. I think consistency paired with persistency. It's just the magic where it all happens. I can't tell you how many no's and emails that never got a reply and it's just keep putting yourself out there and just keep trying and know that one door, you may reach 10 doors and they all are closed, but the next one is open. Just to keep putting yourself out there and staying true to you and to know if that's your path and you just keep going forward and follow your north star.
Mica: [00:51:00] Where can the listeners find you, follow you? And where can they buy your cookbooks?
Alanna: Yeah. So I am on Instagram. Alanna O'Neill photo on Instagram and then my website at Alana O'Neill. com. And I have a mentorship program over there too, that I nurture and help new photographers. And then my books you're going to find anywhere books are sold via Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or maybe your local bookstore. But I would check those two biggies first to find the books. And yeah, that's where you can find me.
Mica: Alanna, thank you so much for coming to the show, being a guest. It really has been such a pleasure having you on the show and I will definitely refer new photographers over to that mentorship because I think that's super important.
Alanna: I really love helping new photographers step into their voice and their [00:52:00] place. Cause I've been there and I know what it's like for all those feelings to come up and feel like you're not good enough, comparing yourself to others. It's just a really wonderful program.
It's been such a pleasure to chat. I feel like we could talk all day about different things and maybe you'll be at the beach and we could sit on the beach and chat next time.
Oh, man, based on your photos, I'm not even talking about visiting. I'm just going to move up there. Thank you again so much for being on the show. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Mica: This episode is written and produced by me, your host, Mika McCook. Like this episode? Give us a five star review on Apple Podcast and subscribe to The Savory Shot wherever you get your podcast. Or follow me, your host, Mika McCook, on Instagram at Mika. McCook. Or you can follow the podcast on Instagram At the savory shot podcast, if you have any [00:53:00] questions, comments, or would like to be featured on the show, email us at podcast at the savory shot.
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