Mica: [00:00:00] Welcome to the 47th episode of The Savory Shot. A podcast about the art and soul of working in food photography. Y'all know who I be. I'm your host with the most Mica McCook. I am a food photographer based out of Austin, Texas. Whether this is your first time, your 47th time, welcome to what I like to lovingly call the Hot Mess Express.
Make yourselves at home. I want to start this par-tay off by wishing all of y'all a happy first day of the month. Y'all, I love May. It's my best friend's birthday. And May is also Mental Health Awareness Month. And I am a firm believer that mental health is real wealth.
I knew I couldn't start this month off without talking about mental health. Y'all know this topic is extremely important to me because, like many of [00:01:00] y'all, I've felt the squeeze of trying to balance everything. Balance life, your art, your career, your relationships, everything. Let me ask y'all this.
Have you ever felt like you're playing a part? Like you're showing the world one side of you while behind the scenes you are scrambling just to keep it all together or that the more you pour yourself into the business side of your work, the less you have left for your creativity or for yourself. Y'all, I, I don't have to say this to y'all because I know you know, but being a freelance photographer, it is demanding.
It's just hard to get your foot in the door, hard to stay in the room. I have faced moments where everything seemed too much. There's just too much. You gotta market yourself, you gotta network, you gotta do your test shoots, and keep your books balanced, and somewhere in [00:02:00] between you're supposed to get some rest, and you're supposed to hang out with your friends, and make time for your family, you know, it's just a lot.
And I know, that you've struggled, felt overwhelmed, and like me, you've learned the hard way that neglecting your mental health just throws everything off balance. Which is why I'm so excited about today's guests. Joining us is Michael Hilgers. He is a licensed therapist with a knack for understanding the creative mind.
Michael has dedicated his career to helping entrepreneurs and artists manage the psychological highs and lows of their profession. And y'all, I just want to say this, this interview had me screaming hallelujah to the sky above because Michael brought the gospel y'all.
He just spoke the truth. We explored why creatives often struggle with self care and [00:03:00] how integrating mental wellness into our daily routines, not only enhances our creativity, but sustains our passion long term. Y'all, you do not want to miss this episode. So before we get into this meaty episode, grab your coffee, your tea. Let's start the show.
[00:04:00]
Mica: I want to start by saying thank you, Michael, for being on the show. For talking about this very important topic. Discussion that we're about to have. So thank you so much for being here.
Michael: You're welcome. I'm excited to be here.
Mica: I will start off by saying how I found you I was in search for a business coach and I found your website. What intrigued me was that you treat creatives.I'm very curious to hear what made you interested in helping creative people.
Michael: Hopefully this answer isn't too anticlimactic. I didn't [00:05:00] intentionally set out to, I think. When I first started my practice, it really came down to office location. I have an office downtown in a great area.
The way the business gets built oftentimes is that, your clients end up referring their friends or family and things like that. Early on I had a few writers. I have worked with some photographers. Quite a few like screenwriters, things like that.
And it just rolled from there. They referred their friends and oftentimes creative people are surrounded by creative people. And I do think it fits with just me as a person.
I definitely value the creative arts. And I also think just personality wise, I'm pretty just down to earth. I don't take myself too seriously. I think that makes me approachable by a lot of people. So I think just all of those kind of combined into, Oh, I do this.
What we were talking about earlier, I do think people appreciate feeling seen. For a lot of [00:06:00] therapists, we really like to focus on the letters after our names, or our theoretical orientations, and we like to talk about that on our websites, and how, cognitive behavioral therapy is great, and it is, but like, people don't care.
People don't care about any of that stuff. As a business owner and from a marketing standpoint, even I think I've veered pretty early on at just trying to identify the types of people that I wanted to work with.
And that came down to people I enjoy talking with who tended to be creative. That spills into the entrepreneurial landscape, small business owners, co founders, things like that.
Mica: You said earlier that people want to feel seen. As you began to treat more creatives, what did they have in common?
Michael: It's hard. It's hard to do creative work professionally. There's a ton of vulnerability in that. There's a ton of identity wrapped up into it. It's not work that you just clock out at the end of the day and you're done with it. [00:07:00] Right. Like, I mean, it, it, It is.
Typically just very integrated into one's life. It's a great thing and it's also a real challenge. It creates issues with boundaries. It creates issues with confidence and self esteem. If somebody doesn't go to your opening, when you get bad reviews or somebody doesn't like the work that you created. I always think of a small child that is presenting their crayon drawing to your parent. What a vulnerable moment that is. A lot of adults grow out of that, in their lives, but I think for creative people, like they never leave that place.
Mica: Oh, I, you, I, gosh, if I could just throw out some confetti, I would because you really nailed it when you said it's hard and there's so much vulnerability. Even when you're not in front of the computer or you're not with the camera, your mind is still thinking about these are all the things that I need to do today.
It's such a vulnerable place to [00:08:00] be.
Michael: Yeah, and combined with that, the creative component of it, right? For people that are also doing that for a living, you've got this whole back end of stuff that like, they don't want to be doing that. Nobody wants to be balancing the books or marketing or God forbid networking.
That's probably some projection there on my part, but like, I hate networking, but like people don't do it for those things. And yet that's probably, if you're going to be successful, that's just as important as the creative work that you're doing. And so you've got these two very opposing things that require different skill sets, different parts of our brain.
And so that just adds to the stress. and so many people fail, I think, in opening up their own business. It's been a while since I've looked at the stats, but it's like the overwhelming majority are shut down in three years. Just across industries, doesn't matter, and it's cause it's freaking hard.
And, I want to be doing this thing, for [00:09:00] photography, I want to be practicing my art, but I've got to spend, another 40 hours doing all this stuff that I hate and that I've never learned how to do. That's what I think surprises most people.
Off the top of my head, I think like we're some kind of study that like 70 percent of Americans like dream about owning, opening their own business. Being self employed. Some small percentage, I dunno, 10%, actually do it, probably fewer than that.
And then of that, a very small percentage even make it past, the two to three ear marks. It's just, hard. It's like the best thing working for yourself and also the worst thing. It's these complete like incongruent kind of experiences of like freedom.
It's just me and oh crap, it's just me.
Mica: Full stop. Yes, to all of that. There's a lot of freedom that comes with it. But there's always that little scary thought in the back of your mind wondering is this the right choice? I could go either left, I could go right. I [00:10:00] remember a couple years ago just being completely overwhelmed by everything.
Getting into photography. I was working a day job full time. On top of that, I had started a food blog with a friend of mine.
I really put a lot of happiness on hold. And I really didn't want to admit that it's hard. Why is it so hard for some artists to articulate that feeling?
Michael: I don't necessarily think that's unique to artists, but I would lump that more in with some of the pressure that goes with owning your own business because one it's again, like the dream of most Americans is to do that.
So there's this idea that we've created. It's also really important to present that kind of front, Oh, like I've got it all together. I've got this figured out. And so there's not a lot of room to be able to say I'm struggling. I'm in it over my head. I'm overwhelmed. All of those [00:11:00] things they fly directly in the face of, the importance of appearing like, you know what you're doing. So you've got this dissonance that's created, because you have outwardly, you're marketing yourself.
You must need work. You're creating this curated image which may actually be important. Like that may matter. I don't want to discount, the validity of that but then that dissonance is created because our brains really don't like it when the outside and the inside don't match up, and so internally you're freaking out, but then you're on set.
Running the show, but acting like you've got everything put together, because that's what you need to do, that's your role, and our brains, man, they have a hard time with those opposites. And so I think is really we're a lot of anxiety, really gets born out of that.
That's like right ground for that because our brains are both like, wait a minute. How can these two opposite things be happening at the same time?
Mica: It truly reminds me [00:12:00] of how the theater world works. Outside on stage, you have this magnificent show going on. Everybody knows their lines. It's a perfect show. Cues are happening when they're supposed to happen, but backstage one of the costumes has gone missing or one of the actors didn't show up and you have less than two minutes to get this figured out. That's what it's like for me on set. When I'm with my clients and they see me and they're like, she's got it. And, then I run in the bathroom like oh shit.
I don't know what I'm doing.
Michael: Yeah, it's one of those things where from a business perspective it's really necessary to be able to compartmentalize and put on the role and show up like just from a business perspective. But it turns out from a mental health perspective, like that's really not good for us. Yeah, we can pull it off or once in a while, but if you're having to move into that space pretty regularly, like that takes a toll.
Again, there's that tension between what may be good for the [00:13:00] business, versus what may be good for me. And that, that's a fine line to try and navigate that. When you go too far, one side or the other, I mean, that's, that's grounds for burnout.
Mica: I want to take it to resistance to therapy. I started therapy in 2020 but I was pretty resistant years before. I thought, therapy is for crazy people. I don't want to talk to someone about my problems. My business is my business. I don't want to throw that on anyone. I've been through a lot in my life.
Ultimately, I realized that there were two things that was keeping me from therapy. One was that, I was really uncomfortable to talk about the things that have happened to me in my life, and confronting that and facing that.
And two, I was embarrassed about needing therapy. I felt like it was a weak quality to want therapy or to need therapy. But what would you say to someone who feels embarrassed [00:14:00] or is struggling, or thinking, but hesitating about seeking therapy?
Michael: Just visually, I'm guessing that I'm a little bit older than you. In my time on this earth, I've definitely seen it get better.
It, people are so much more open to it now. It's so much more in the mainstream portrayed in the media, things like that talk about. So just even that, we're in a much better place, but I think there's two things. I think one people in general, even if we need to change, even if there's positive things that we can do. We're pretty committed to stay, staying the same. Like internally, like we really what's a good word? Homeostasis, I don't know if that's a good word or not, but like, just remaining in the same state. For most people, there's that, that, that tug of war internally. I'm just Oh, look, I really need to do this different. All of a sudden, this would be better for me. And then I need to work on these things. I need to improve in those areas. But then there's that other part of me that's just Oh, I don't want to do that.
Let's just, this is, this is comfortable. It may not be good, but it's at least I can know it. So [00:15:00] some of that is just the fear of I don't know what that would be. Either just on a practical level of walking into an office, getting onto a couch, or logging on to a Zoom or whatever to meet with a stranger and talk about things that I don't normally talk about with anybody sure, that's intimidating. Even if rationally we know that might be better for us. Again I do think the stigmas have gone down a little bit in general, but yeah there's also that idea of it.
It's intrigued because I can't remember the exact word you used just a minute here, but it's like the idea of being and the irony there is oh, it's just the opposite. Like it takes such strength to walk into somebody's office. That's such a sign of strength and resilience and all of those things that it's the exact opposite of weakness. But man, practicing that vulnerability, asking for help, or just acknowledging man, that can really help build up resilience and improve confidence and all of those things that it's such a good skill to [00:16:00] practice.
All of the things that I was fearing, it was just in my head when I was just anxiety talking. So I think really just stepping into that fear is important. The other thing too, I mean, I don't think you were alluding to this talking about this kind of people's reluctance to therapy is, is just also access.
It's expensive. It takes time. Depending on where you live, you I do think like the push into different platforms being available for people to just talk via distance, you know, I'm in New Mexico, you're in Texas. That, that's gone a long way in terms of recruiting access .
Michael: Even in Austin, there's several organizations that offerlow cost access to clinicians. Sometimes you have to be a little creative, about finding what the thing that's going to work for you, but if you can lower those barriers, that does a great deal for people.
Mica: You mentioned earlier about people feel comfortable staying in the same place.
Michael: what I mean?
Mica: It reminded me of a video I just watched yesterday with Tony Robbins and Theo [00:17:00] Vaughn. Theo was talking about how it's hard for him to say that he's proud of himself, that if he wrote it on a wall and that said, I'm proud of you, that it would make him feel guilty for being proud. That his normal reaction is to go back to those negative feelings of self deprecation.
I'm this, I'm not that. Tony mentioned because it feels like home, and even though, it's bad for you and that it's harming you and hurting you, it's still home and you feel comfortable at home. I figured out why it's so hard for me to ask for help. It stems from my childhood about having to figure life out for myself and always having to get myself out of jams. Even just a few weeks ago, I was trying to get a baking dish at the very top of our cupboards. The things almost toppled on top of me and my husband just came in, he grabbed it. He's tall guy and he came and grabbed it. And he goes, why didn't you just ask me for help?
And I was like, Oh, cause I got this ladder and I could have done. And he's yeah, but it would have been easier if you would have just asked for help. And I'm like, he's right. It would have been [00:18:00] easier. I don't know, like, how do we get in that frame of mind that it's easier to ask for help than it would be to just figure it out for yourself. I'm finding in the photography community, it's hard for people to reach out to another photographer and say, hey, I'm trying to get into this industry and I don't know. I don't know what I'm doing. Can you help me? Or reaching out to anyone and saying, I just don't know what I'm doing and I need some help.
Michael: That goes back to the idea of, particularly like for self employed folks , there is so much identity wrapped up into it, right? I can remember starting out and what do you do, put a sign out? Hope somebody like is walking by that wants therapy? I had no idea what I was doing and I was fortunate in that I had several really good friends they were the ones that kind of encouraged me to do it.
And I can remember calling them up at different times and just saying the next person that calls you, you need to send them my way . Instead of taking them for [00:19:00] yourself, you need to send that person to me because that was the only way it was going to happen. The internet was existing then, but it really wasn't, it wasn't anything like it was now, and really it was all about relationships and like I didn't have a choice like it was like nobody's walking in the door, and so somebody needs to just give me a solid. And that's a really unpleasant place to be you know. To have to ask. Our culture just reinforces that idea of Oh, you just need it.
What is it? Pull yourself up by your bootstraps or whatever, that phrase that's taken on a whole different meaning. It is so unfortunate because most people are happy to help. Most people are, and what a great way to build relationships.
If we were all invested in everybody else's success, what a great place to be. I would imagine, in the photography world, it's easy to get in that scarcity mindset. If I had asked my friends to send me the [00:20:00] next person and they were just like no, like they're mine. So there's a scarcity mindset of we're competing against everybody.
There's this adversarial kind of position to take, and that just further isolates us all. It just makes it all harder. So anything I think that we can do in our respective industries to reform those relationships to be willing to like, say Hey I actually know something about that.
Let me help you.
For sure. There's a video that Arnold Schwarzenegger. He had such a great message about how he got to where he is because of all the help.
Mica: And I'm like, that is the perspective that we need more of. That no one gets to wherever they are by themselves. I love that. I want to take it to why is it important for photographers to prioritize their mental health, especially when they're starting out.
Michael: I think, especially the starting out period is it's, it's critical, right? You're you're building a foundation of something. That's something's gonna grow and evolve over time. It's not gonna look the same, but like the [00:21:00] foundation that you put is going to. It's simple in terms of just like, oh, it's really important for you to be at your best. If you're not taking care of yourself and I'm gonna, I'm gonna go off on a rant here, but like, the whole grind mentality, I hate it. I can't reference somebody that I've worked with, but it's so unfortunate that there's this mentality that you have to somehow, what is grinding? It's destroying, right? You basically have to wear yourself out, in order to succeed. It is, I would guess, maybe not the number one thing, but it ranks up there pretty high with folks. That it ends up doing the exact opposite. It is like such an impediment. So often to success, because people are worn out, they're burned out, they're, disillusioned by this thing, what they thought it was, but then they, they feel like they've got to work seven days a week , or, they don't have good boundaries, they don't maintain the things that, that actually bring them joy and [00:22:00] feed their soul, for the sacrifice of the business.
And some of that is gonna happen. Like I, I'm not naive to think that like, yeah, it's hard work and you've got to, you've got to push yourself and all that. But.
If you're sleep deprived, you're more inclined to be anxious. You're not going to have that clarity of thought. You're not going to organize. Things that can fall through the cracks. The number one thing most entrepreneurs give up, is sleep.
Mica: What are, let's say, three things that someone could be doing right now to prioritizing their mental health? Sleep being one of them. I guess two more.
Michael: There are some basics, the basics of like sleeping, eating, exercise. Beyond that, it's a little different, person to person. For me, personally it's really important that I get out on my mountain bike every week.
Because I just sit and talk to people, throughout the week.
I read an interesting quote last night or saw it or something that, that was basically like, if you work with your mind, rest with your [00:23:00] hands.
Isn't that great. This idea of like doing opposites, like our brains in order to encourage neuroplasticity, it's good to like bring in opposing things. Because I sit and talk to people throughout the week, I try to be really active on the weekends. And that, that keeps me, I work a lot, but I think that really protects me against burnout. If I can get on my bike a couple of times a week, get out the mountains, bust out the welder, fire up the forge, whatever those things are for me, personally, those are the things that kind of, kind of feed my soul.
Part of it is important for people to know what those things are for them and to recognize the value of them. Intake questionnaire that I give clients before I talk to them. One of the questions is what brings you joy? And everybody lists stuff like everybody's got stuff. Nobody has a problem answering that question. But when I actually talk to them and ask them if they do those things like the vast majority of people, those are the first things people give up, in pursuit of like [00:24:00] making the business work.
And it's like, well, like if you're giving up the stuff that like really feeds you, that's just as important as sleep and eating and, you know, those more tangible things. If you give up the stuff that brings you joy no wonder you're depressed. Go do those things. You already know what they are.
You've got a list right here. Go play guitar, go paint go do whatever, play golf, it doesn't matter what the thing is. It's just important to do the things.
Mica: I'm fully, fully, fully against the hustle till you drop, mentality, mainly because I fell so far deep into that and it just, it negatively impacted all aspects of my life. My friendships suffered and my marriage suffered. My business ultimately suffered. I burnt myself out.
We're taught that things happen when you make them happen. And I felt like if I'm not devoting all of my waking hours, all [00:25:00] of my energy into making this business work, and then it doesn't work, that it's my fault. I read a an Instagram post, like two, two years ago, two years ago. Someone said that the time that you're spending watching your TV show is the time that you could be watching a tutorial.
And if you're not doing that, then you don't really want this. But that's really the mindset that I really struggled with is that if I'm not doing everything all hours, 24 seven to this business, at least for the first few years. And grind, work hard, lose sleep.
Don't hang out with my friends. Don't do any of those things. Dedicate everything to making this business grow. And then when it's successful, then I can go rest.
Michael: There is. Always something more you could be doing. And I do think this particularly for creative folks, this is where like, it kind of sucks to be creative because you can come up with an endless [00:26:00] range of possibilities, endless range of things I could be doing.
Oh, what about this? Oh, that'd be a cool idea. And that never ends and it is both a blessing and a curse.
Like it requires hard work. I'm not opposed to people stretching themselves and you know, maybe there are some sleepless nights, but they can't all be sleepless. It can't always be about work. And that's the really tricky thing for most people want things to be pretty binary.
You like black and white, and it's up to each individual to figure out like where that line is for you. And it's constantly moving, some weeks, some months. Maybe you've got it in you, you don't like really push. But you've also got to listen to yourself and get to yourself enough.
To where, you know, like, okay, it's time to just turn on the tv. That's enough for today.
Mica: It's this idea of you always gotta keep up with what's trending. You always gotta adjust and adapt with the times. There's no rest. If you rest, then you're gonna be left behind.
Michael: I think there's a whole lot more than just creative folks struggling with [00:27:00] that, right? That's the pace, of society and life. As just absolutely crazy as, as COVID was, there was this forced kind of slowing down. It was good for some people, a challenge for others, but, you have this external thing where Oh, like I can't help. I can't go anywhere, it's not even my choice. What's the creativity, if you don't allow space for allowing yourself to be bored. That's where creativity's born. That's the birthplace of it.
Mica: People don't know how to be bored anymore.
Michael: Go be bored. You've got to allow yourself to be in that place. That's not comfortable.
Mica: I guess when you're a kid, it's easier to be bored. Your parents tell you go find something to do. And you're like, okay. But as an adult, you're like what can I do to occupy this?
Michael: Something that I do intentionally is sometimes I'll just leave my house without my phone. I intentionally just leave it behind every once in a while.
I am the weirdo in the barber shop that is not looking at his phone. Like I will just sit there and do exactly what you do I can smell the aftershave. I can hear the [00:28:00] buzz of the clippers.
Maybe I feel the sun coming through the window on the back of my neck, but like being in the moment. Just being present.
Restaurants are great for sensory kind of stuff, but anything you can do to just activate any knowledge, pay attention to your senses. We always have them with us. It's a great practice.
Mica: My husband, he's very like, disciplined with his phone and keeping it away. When we moved in together, one of the things that he did not want whatsoever was our phones in our bedroom. And he's like, there's a space that we can put that, and I'm like but I need the alarm.
What if there's an emergency and someone needs to call me? And what if we need to call 911?
You mentioned something earlier that just stood out to me about anxiety. My photographer friends talk about how they never experienced or they never remembered experiencing anxiety to that level until they became freelancers. I myself didn't realize that everything that I was [00:29:00] experiencing was anxiety. My question is, what are some common triggers for anxiety and burnout that photographers can identify early? What can they do when they feel that?
Michael: I'll start with the second part first. People don't like this idea, but like fighting against anxiety trying not to be anxious often just exacerbates it. Part of addressing anxiety is one, it's really great to put a label on it because then you know what it is.
Whether it's physical manifestation of symptoms or ruminating thoughts or whatever, just being able to label it as Oh, that's anxiety. And there's my old friend, and it really does require just like some acceptance of Okay, I guess I'm going to feel anxious today.
It's just a feeling. It's just chemicals. It's just electrical impulses. When you push against things, they tend to just take root even stronger. I think that would be number one is, and it's way easier for me to say that than actually do in practice, but just the acceptance of the anxiety can be really [00:30:00] actually helpful. Again, like the goal is like not to eradicate it. Anxiety can be really productive. Anxiety can make sure we pay our taxes on time. Anxiety can keep us from walking out in front of a bus. It's a useful, helpful kind of thing sometimes.
So the more you can just recognize Oh yeah, like I'm doing something scary. I should feel anxious about this. That's a normal kind of response. It's to be anything scary, and the trick is just to keep doing it
You do it in spite of the fear. You don't let the anxiety make the decisions for you. It's a long term ride. It's there, but it's not worth the show. That's where therapy can really help.
Mica: You mentioned earlier about. accepting that you're feeling anxiety, accepting you're experiencing an emotion. What does that look like when someone identifies it and accepts it and can move forward from it?
I guess what I really mean to ask is, what should they do? After they accept it to help them move forward from it?
Michael: Grounding kind of [00:31:00] things. That the sensory stuff that we were talking about earlier. Can be really helpful.
I tend to be a little bit closed off as a person, although my friends would call it a loof I've over the years developed this practice of, a lot of, apparently a lot of stuff happens to me at grocery stores.
I go into the grocery store, you know, inevitably the cashier is going to ask you how your day is going. It's almost always going to happen in the grocery store or convenience store or whatever. And. I had to kind of challenge this aloof part of me. I've made it the practice of like, I will answer that question.
I'm not going to sit there and like for 30 minutes, like dump on somebody at the grocery store line. I'm not going to hold up the line or anything like that. But like, I'm going to give an honest answer. And part of that is like, I stop and just kind of check in with myself. How is my day going?
I'm just going to give an honest answer. And if I'm feeling anxious about something, I'm going to say, you know what, like I'm actually feeling a little anxious today, or I'm having a great day. Whatever it is, I'm just going to get an honest answer.
Anxiety, like thrives in the darkness. The more we [00:32:00] try to appear not anxious, the more we try to pretend it's not there. Like it just, it really likes that. And so just a simple acknowledgement. You don't have to be at the grocery store. It could be with a friend. It could be with whoever.
But being able to just say like, I'm feeling anxious today. That's another part of that acceptance.
Mica: Something you touched on earlier that ties in with the acceptance of feeling an emotion. It reminds me of a conversation I had with my therapist, Sarah, hello, Sarah. She mentioned that it takes, about 10 seconds to really feel an emotion and to experience it and go through with it and come out the other side of it and that often most people don't take eight seconds to experience something. If they're experiencing anger or something other than joy and happiness that they just push that down.
You have just these group of folks who have pushed down years and years of anger, sadness, discomfort, whatever [00:33:00] negative emotion there is out there.
They just either don't take the time to feel it, and therefore they can't move past it, or they just explode with it out. They're like a little time bomb. You never know when it's going to happen, when it's going to go. And so that's why I'm like, wondering, what does acceptance look like?
And how do you move past that? Because to feel it and accept it is great. To move on from it is just equally as hard as accepting.
This is just an example, let's say you had a bad experience with a client, with a photo shoot, and that was just an unpleasant experience and you don't know how to deal with the feelings that came from it or how it came about or resulted.
And so you take that energy into your next shoot. And in some ways, I don't want to say sabotage, but you place what happened with that client onto what happened with the current client, and you never move past it. I really think it's [00:34:00] because people don't take the time to process what happened, accept it, and say if I find myself in this situation again, then I can take it on.
But just because it happened that time doesn't mean it's going to happen again. Or just because this happened doesn't mean it won't happen over there.
Michael: Yeah. Totally. Totally. Reactivity is automatic. It just it happens.
It becomes really important to recognize like, not all clients are difficult. Yes, that one was, and even taking the idea of like acceptance, even a little bit further of just recognizing when you're going into the new client, recognizing like, Ooh, I'm feeling that.
I know where it's coming from though. Like it's coming from there and not here. That may not make it go away, but like really being able to differentiate, between, a trauma that happened, and the present moment.
And it's really important to bring yourself back to the present in that moment, just like, okay, that sucked, but this is not that, and that, [00:35:00] that takes place on relationships, whether any kind of, area of life. That stuff seeps in and that's just, I think part of the process of life is being able to differentiate between all the things that we carry around with us. I don't know. I don't know that we ever really get rid of those things. The things that suck, yeah, that, that happened. And that's real. And it and the feelings associated with that may be around for a really long time. But learning, to remember that, oh, we're not in that timeline anymore.
We're in this one. And you didn't use this word earlier, but you kind of alluded to the concept, I think, of just compartmentalizing. And it's not always a bad thing. Sometimes we need to compartmentalize stuff. The trick is it's always going to find a way out. Nobody's as good at compartmentalizing things as they think they are.
It's going to find a way out if you don't go back, revisit it, acknowledge it, accept it, do the stuff, in the moment. There may be [00:36:00] times where that is a useful, helpful skill. Yeah. I just got to get through this thing, but then it's important to go back and make sure either with somebody else or just on your island, you're doing some kind of processing of the thing because it's going to seek more than the other.
Mica: I only have one more question, if there was one message that a creative needed to hear, right here, right now, what would that message be for them?
Michael: That's a good question.
I can't, I don't know that I can do one. There's two things that are coming up for me. One would be what you bring into the world is so very important. Whether it's photographs Poetry, music, or dance. It is just the heart of being human.
And so I would just say like, Thank you. That would be my number one. My number two would be [00:37:00] take care of yourselves, Because without taking care of yourself, there is no craft.
There, There, there is no work. That's vital. if you're not taking care of yourself the work just isn't there. That'd be my two things.
Mica: The taking care of yourself. That one just right in the heart. Man. Oh my gosh. I want to keep talking to you, but I know you got that.
Oh, minutes,
snap. So then we really got to wrap this baby up. Where can the listeners find you and follow you and are you accepting patients?
Michael: In the spirit of keeping my life simpler, I only have a website. There's no social media. Again, going back to the idea of self care and there is an endless number of things that small business owners can do. I've tried to really keep my life simple by just relying on that.
So they can think of my website. It's my name, Michael Hilgers, followed by the letters, lpc. com. So that's my website. My schedule is really full. And honestly, [00:38:00] from like 2015, when the world started going a little wonky most therapists I know are pretty full. So on my website, it does say that I'm not taking new clients. People reach out to me anyway, if I can't help them, I typically try to lighten them up with somebody else that can.
There's a lot of good resources out there. I don't encourage people to wait. If you need to talk to somebody, you can find you somebody, there are tons of good therapists in this world. And so in the spirit of helping others and not being in that stinger shooting mindset, I'm happy to refer people out.
People can still reach out to me if they want, even though it says that on my website. That's the easiest way to get ahold of me.
Mica: And you also I was reading some of your blog posts and I found that to be such a great
resource as well.
Michael: Yeah.
There's just some tons of good stuff out there. I've worked pretty hard at building some good resources up. So appreciate you.
Mica: Michael, [00:39:00] I thank you so much for being on the show.
Michael: Thank you for having me. It was, this is, this is a fun. I really enjoyed it.
[00:40:00]